we're on a mission from god

wendy so i got that going darling

i picked the wrong way to quit sniffing

blue light of my life

we enjoy your films

i thought they smelled bad on the

outside

[Music]

welcome to vintage video where we're

re-watching the 80s so you don't have to

experimenting with new slogans we're

also reviewing every major film release

of the 1980s in real time

i'm patrick o'reilly i'm jesse bayless

and i'm richard wells and today marks

the 40th anniversary

of the release of the ninth

configuration on february 29th

1980. it was written and directed by

william peter blatty and released by

warner brothers

so uh this is based on a book of his in

1966 william peter blatty wrote the

novel

twinkle twinkle killer kane and having

enjoyed friedkin's the night they raided

minsky's in 1960 he believed he was the

perfect man to direct it

friedkin was game but they couldn't land

a studio later the two collaborated

on the exorcist obviously um blatty

later came back to the story developed

it more

and connected it canonically to the

exorcist well that's interesting that i

didn't realize that this

like i i realized that the two of them

worked on the exorcist but i didn't

realize that this wasn't a result of

that so they were actually trying to

work on this together even before they

did the exercises and then

after that failed they came back to do

this and it's actually the same

cinematic universe they share a

character

written the exorcist at this point so he

wrote it before

twinkle twinkle i actually don't know

when the book

uh the exorcist came out but the movie

was what 73

73 um but so they

came together and made the exorcist

first um

and the two films are connected through

astronaut uh

captain billy cutshaw who makes an

appearance in both films

uh though played by different actors

he's dick calling in and the exorcist

and he has scott wilson in the ninth

configuration but you remember the scene

with the astronaut when she

the girl goes downstairs and pees on the

carpet and says you're gonna die up

there

yeah that's why he abandons the launch

in the ninth configuration is because

he got this supernatural indication that

he was going to die in space

oh so that's how they connected them

yeah not just visually with that one

both of the books had astronauts before

he decided they would be

the same story but then he came back and

um added that column it's kind of weird

that you would have

the same actor in both movies and you

but you

like and you it's different actors but

no no no they have

they have this the same actor is in both

movies but he plays different

shirts oh i see what you're saying you

know but they're still trying to connect

it to the same universe

that's kind of weird well there's lots

of actors who are in the same movies

right peter bloody wrote including the

exorcist three

uh right because you have the the cut

shaw from this film comes back for the

exorcist three

and so does the uh the

the doctor colonel the royal doctor yes

yeah the spoiler alert the actual

he he plays father dyer in exodus three

yeah but um william peter bloody says

that this is the

this is the true sequel to the exorcist

because nobody likes the actual

exorcist too which is that the heretic

heretic yeah yeah

with pazuzu and it's linda blair came

back right

uh linda blair i did believe came back

for the second

and for repossessed with leslie nielsen

that that one's actually

was was she in the third one as well or

just the second one because

i've seen another one with her in it but

i don't know which one i want

i really hope that it's repossessed

one of the exorcist movies it must have

been the second one that i've seen then

yep that's the one i've seen okay after

looking it up that is the one i've seen

i don't know if i didn't see that with

you i don't know where i saw it yeah i

definitely haven't seen that one

yeah so but wilson scott wilson who

plays the astronaut here

came back to play dr temple in the third

installment

um the rewritten version of twinkle

twinkle killer kane was released as the

ninth configuration

uh in 78 the book uh was released in 78

uh and even after exorcist bladdy had a

very difficult time landing a studio

and this time he was attaching himself

as director but you would think after

exorcist did gangbusters at the box

office that they would have an easier

time um he originally wrote the

screenplay adapted from his own book for

colombia

they put the script in terms of the

exorcists do really well in the yes

yeah it was it was crazy i could see how

that movie

was kind of ahead of its time in terms

of things that it was

broaching it's subject i think it it was

like a phenomenon though

it was word of mouth just blew that

movie up and it was also

zero budget like the whole thing is in

one house practically

yeah well and and uh it was one of the

first movies i feel

that really had like this media

attention of

people coming out of the theater

throwing up or crying or

church is banning people from going to

see it which always helps

yeah it just it does it's a streisand

effect

it just had this reaction with the

populace where people were being

interviewed after the movie and

like we're in in the interviews crying

like

like this happened and i don't know what

this is i don't know what to feel and

like like just people coming out of the

theater is just traumatized

wow and i don't i don't blame them the

what i remember the first time

i saw the exorcist was when it

re-released in theaters in the 90s

and we were like oh we're going to go

see this like cheesy horror movie from

like the 60s or 70s or whatever i don't

even know

and we go in and watch it and the whole

time it's just like holy crap this is

terrifying like i remember coming out of

the theater shaking like

they don't make movies like this anymore

i feel bad the only version of the

exorcist i've seen

is like the weird recut that has like

the weird faces that appear in the in

the void spaces all the time

yeah uh that's the only version of the

action is that not

that's not the regular version of it

original no i i think i think that's

like the reimagined

okay because yeah that was our only

complaint when we were when we

re-watched it recently was that it was

like

these corny faces keep showing up but

it's like even if it was

like one frame at a time you know like

tyler durden style it might be better

but they hold on it for like four or

five frames and it's like what was that

dumb face

well yeah it has it has like a

persistence of vision effect

sure because it's really bright against

darkness yeah and then it just kind of

slowly your it fades from your eyesight

in a weird way

yeah i think that it's more terrifying

well now that i not that i saw it before

i had kids but

you know having had kids sure i think

that that's even more terrifying because

you know

and and and being a person of science

you're just like

yeah of course we're going to try to

find a doctor and solve your

legitimate medical problems and of

course this isn't something supernatural

but then it like

legitimately is supernatural and that's

horrifying yeah

and almost everyone in the movie is

portrayed as being at least agnostic if

not straight-up atheist including one of

the priests

for most of the movie and so it's like

by the end of the movie when you're like

oh all of these people who agree with me

that science makes more sense and at the

end they're coming to the same

conclusion that it's like no no this is

a supernatural monster

well thank you for listening to our

exorcist review hey we're not going to

get to that one so we might as well

cover it here

yeah well it's important because like

you said it is tied

right tied to this in in in in the

loosest of ways

in the loosest of ways it's a direct

sequel according to the writer director

i think that i think that makes it at

least uh connected um

and it's part of with exorcist three is

considered

i forget what the name of it is but they

call it like a trilogy right from him

a trilogy is the name word for it i know

there's a

you know like there's the lord of the

rings trilogy there's a name for this

trilogy

no the exorcist trilogy is exorcist

exorcist two exorcist three

if you ask someone if they've seen the

exorcist trilogy and they said yes they

probably haven't seen the ninth

configuration that's true because they

wasted some time in their life watching

the heretic

uh the exorcist saga no it's something

like uh

like the science and religion trilogy or

something like that like black

versus evil i don't know what it's

called who knows gv

we don't have the internet in uh in 1980

so we can't look this up

i'm not actually suggesting that you

look it up i'm actually trying to look

it up right now

good luck thank you um i don't even

remember where i read it um

but yeah so columbia turned the script

uh put the script in turn around

universal passed on it because no one

was willing to risk their reputation on

something like colombia turned around

um so blatty ended up raising four

million dollars himself for the

production

and somehow talked pepsico into footing

another two million

yeah so of the six million dollar budget

a third of that was paid for by pepsi

why here's why because it turns out

hungary has

or had i'm not clear a regulation in

place that prevents the export of local

profits

so when they would sell pepsi in hungary

they couldn't send the money back to the

american corporation

they had to spend that money on

something in hungary and

so their first thing was here's what

we'll do we'll make it a little bit more

money

by paying someone to make a film in

hungary

so that we can pay all the workers there

with these this money that we have

locked in that country

and then get the price and then take the

profits from that movie

and they rolled it over into a bottling

plant in hungary

so but they didn't have enough money for

the bottling plate in the first place so

they needed an investment that they

could

pay for in hungary i know let's make a

movie that's a great not only that but

this movie like i don't understand how

that came to be and apparently

from everything i read there was no

obligation to include

uh the product in the film but there is

a pepsi vending machine in the movie

right i don't remember the pepsi vending

machine

the one of the one of the characters the

multiple personality guy

is dressed up as like a nun and is

trying to put money into it i didn't

even notice that it was pepsi yeah

that's how

not prominent it was and i they say that

it wasn't

it didn't have to be in the movie but i

i have a feeling that they might have

said like

oh well if you're disturbed by the

product placement you should know that

we just did that as a courtesy and that

it wasn't required and it's like i bet

that was required well they probably

like

donated a pepsi machine oh production

office yeah it's like

you know what rather than move this

thing off set between shots why don't we

just leave it here

well because this this set probably was

also the production office

since the budget and the exteriors are

a castle in uh germany but the interiors

are all

a sound stage in hungary oh so it wasn't

even an actual castle in hungary i'm

like

why you just why do you set it in a

castle unless you actually have a castle

to film it i don't know

the film takes place in the pacific

northwest and it's an abandoned castle

like a minifigure yeah and it's not even

that like they

at some point in the film they say that

this castle was brought over

by brick and i'm like this just seems

unnecessarily

elaborate reason to set this here but

it's not

i think it's in keeping with most of the

movie which is like unnecessarily

elaborate

stuff well and it also it also could tie

that

there is some kind of supernatural force

sure that came with it they came with it

because i kept waiting for the statues

that were all over this castle to play a

factor in this movie and i was

horribly angry that they didn't well

every time we see one of the statues

there's a person standing next to it

doing like a similar pose

to the statue so you get to get the

impression that like these girl girls

are like

inhabiting the people there like they're

possessed

um the film was not a commercial success

i don't know

if pepsi even made their two million

dollars back but it did garner a best

picture nomination at the golden globes

but it must have gotten enough money

because you said they made money enough

to make a bottling plan well they got a

bottling plan i don't know if that meant

they just

infused hungary with more money to get

their bundling plant or what happened

but um blatty actually won

for best screenplay at the golden globes

um he also won at the saturn awards for

the same

award which is the sci-fi awards show

they do every year

i don't know if it's a show but ceremony

yeah um

it was reissued in 1985 under the

original book title twinkle twinkle

killer kane

um the film is also the origin of the

howie scream

yes which is very exciting wait a minute

that scream that i that scream that you

recognized in the bar fight

yeah that's from this movie

what i didn't know that i was just like

oh they used that cheesy scream that's

in every movie

i didn't know that was from this movie

no this is so this is the origin of the

howie scream but you can tell too

because

that guy screams a few times in that

scene and it's very clearly the same

voice

of the scream that you hear when he's

getting thrown through the window that's

crazy

for our listeners who may not be

familiar the howie scream is a popular

stock sound effect which is nicknamed

after howie long's death scene in 1996's

broken arrow

which is obviously that's not the first

use of it but that's like a popular one

that people recognize it from

if it were up to me it would be named

after its use in the opening theme

and title of nickelodeon's ah real

monsters

it is the ah in ah real monsters um

and uh unless i'm mistaken the film is

actually being remade right now in

argentina under the title compound 9. oh

really

yeah oh this was gonna this was going to

be on my list of

films i'd want to remake oh sure yeah

um but uh why don't we get into the

actual story of the film

uh we start in that the castle we we

start with the ending credits

where it's just a long montage of images

of the castle with music

and and nothing i was like i was like is

the movie already over

what happened this sounds like the end i

was like it's like i'm always worried

that there's a corrupted file or

something wrong sure

with it and and that it's like oh it

says it's at the beginning but this

looks like it's

it's possibly the ending and i missed

the whole movie

uh but you're not wrong it is the ending

also yeah

um but yeah we start with the castle

just uh

wide shots of this castle and in the

woods and it actually doesn't look

unlike the pacific northwest if that's

what you're calling it i was just there

just like this just flew in from

portland and boy

are he is he tired did you say portland

sure

wasn't that the co-host of tool time

portland

close enough um uh

the first character we see is cut shaw

astronaut billy cutshaw

who is sleeping um oh no

at the beginning he's sitting in a

window and he's uh envisioning

when he abandoned the launch site of

his fateful trip to the moon

which i loved this shot yeah the wide

shot of the

you know because i was like starting to

wonder like what is gonna happen here

then

massive moon like holy crap it looks

like uh

like one of those like bad rip-offs of

2001 like yeah like a saturn 3 shot

i was gonna say it actually this whole

montage of him imagining this was

reminding me a lot of saturn's three

because like it's all it's all kind of

backlit and and like harsh shadows and

we'll throw a screenshot on our

instagram um

of this of the moon rising behind the

the launch site uh

our instagram by the way is uh vintage

video pod if you want to check it out

yeah we see this giant moon uh rises

behind the

rocket and then he's immediately getting

arrested by a team yeah two men

attacking him as he's like going crazy

yeah

they aren't attacking him they're like

restraining him and pulling him away

yeah he had a complete mental breakdown

in the capsule

and uh they're taking him off the launch

site and

we cut to him waking up uh right in the

same room where he was presumably

sitting in the windowsill

and he runs to the window and says

someone's coming like he just recognizes

psychically that something's on the way

um and in another wide shot the narrator

voice reads us the premise to the movie

uh which is basically that a very high

percentage of vietnam vets are

developing mental problems

um it's such a high number compared to

even other military actions that they

think that a lot of them are faking it

to get out of service or to get

some sort of a government pension so the

vietnam war is still

happening right i i'm i'm not asking i'm

i'm i'm establishing this for that yeah

yeah the vietnam war is in full gear if

you guys didn't know the vietnam war

is still happening okay

um but the yeah so the numbers were so

high that they decided that they would

start

investigating them right because these

guys in theory are faking it to get out

of of duty right much like mash

the uh do they do stuff like that well

yeah there's there there's the uh

the one character who's uh i wanna say

it was uh

it's not klinger who's pretending to be

crazy yeah uh because he's always trying

to get out on on the uh

the section eight yeah uh jimmy farrow

plays

yeah klinger i was right huh there you

go look at that richard knew

why didn't you know it richard uh so

yeah he's always cross dressing

and and and you know wearing exotic

women's clothing because he's trying to

get it

but this is korean war i guess [ __ ] i

guess i should establish also the

compassion is the korean war

by the way listeners the korean war is

also ongoing

we have always been at war yeah we will

always be a war uh

but yeah so i think their their their

concern is that

they're faking uh i don't know where i'm

so lost now they're faking and so

they're setting up these like

these these centers in order to

investigate

these groups of men that they they want

to suss out who really needs help and

who's just trying to get out of service

yeah and so that's like that's the

premise of all of these

men that are that are at this facility

that's why they're there and this is the

the last the 18th of 18 facilities that

were set up

um and their psychiatrist is inbound

um the inmates line up in the courtyard

and get a quick dressing down from major

grouper

uh he's not a fan he's he's not able to

handle these people he's

he's very classic military type guy like

this is very

if this word later it would be arleigh

army yeah totally

like he's a drill sergeant type um and

uh

colonel kane wakes up in a car ride on

his way into the asylum

and they decide the inmates decide

they're going to sing him you are my

sunshine as he's getting out of the car

um which they quickly follow up by

quizzing each other on random

movie lines this is where they one of

the lines was the

um we don't need no stinking badges from

treasure of the sierra madre

yeah and then we pulled up a list of

like the five other movies that that's

from after that

we don't need no stinking badges

we ain't got no badges we don't need no

badges

i don't have to show you any stinking

brushes

we don't need no stinking budget

three badgers badgers

badgers we don't need no stinking

badgers

uh froome who introduces himself as the

medical officer lets kane know that this

is like

these guys are a problem and he's he's

outnumbered here and he doesn't realize

how hard his job is going to be

and then a pair of soldiers come and

apprehend from

uh who is an inmate posing as a doctor i

loved this moment

i really loved it because like up until

this point like you are

absolutely sold that this guy is telling

the new

you know psychiatrist the lay of the

land and like what to watch out for

and like you know how this place works

and then he just it's dragged off

yeah because he's in full he's in like

the full like

he's got the white he's got the white

robe and he's got the pants

he's got the whole business yeah like

the inmates are running the asylum yeah

yeah

well and then like you you could just

tell from dr kane's face too that you're

just like

oh god he's like realizing what he's

getting himself into he's like how are

you gonna know what's real

i'm gonna have to question everything

that happens now um

i i should also i want to mention right

now

listener if you haven't seen the 9th

configuration yet

please do what you can to watch it

before listening to the rest of this

review we're going to go through the

whole rest of the movie

but this is this is a gem and i would

like for you to see it before

before we spoil any moments moving

forward you're right usually we save

our our recommendations for the end but

i i just pause right now

i just want to say if you have any way

to access it or you know anyone you can

borrow it from

watch the movie and then listen to the

rest of this because this is really

great

um i'm giving my up or down away right

now but yeah

this is a great film um and you should

check it out if you haven't seen or even

heard of it

like i hadn't before we started the

venture of putting it i don't think

anyone's seen it i i had not seen it and

i had only

just heard of it within like the last

two weeks

oh really because uh they mentioned it

on red letter media when they were

reviewing exorcist three

oh okay and and they just mentioned oh

yeah and william peterborough's ninth

configuration

and i was like i think that's one of the

movies we're gonna watch

i heard about it last week when patrick

told us this was the next movie we were

watching

he read the description and it sounded

really awesome yeah and i was

not disappointed nope um but yeah so

we've gotten that out of the way if if

you've decided you're cool with spoilers

and you want to

just hear what it's about then enjoy um

but yeah so from is taken away and the

the actual doctor fell walks up wearing

no pants because his pants were stolen

by this guy he's got shorts on

right but he's yeah he doesn't look like

a doctor because he's

because he's been robbed um

and uh the the first thing he says is he

calls him vincent

and then when cain is like what are you

talking about and he said you remind me

of vincent van gogh and then just goes

off on

another tangent right um and

later on i think in the same scene kane

says you know i feel like i recognize

you but i don't know where from

i think it's a little bit later but it's

it's one scene after the other so right

yeah

um but grouper is presenting the inmates

and you can hear them peeing on the

ground behind him and he just makes it

like rolls his eyes like pissed off face

but he doesn't even turn around and see

him doing it he just knows what they're

doing already

i had to fluctuate the volume whenever

stacy keach was talking

to like turn it way up i was like is he

he's whispering in every scene i can't

hear what he's saying

yeah he's he is very quiet and like flat

monotone when he's talking but it's it's

a

it's a very chilling effect yeah and i i

swear

like 90 of the scenes in this movie he's

he's making this

face in which he sort of got like his

he's like pursing his lips a little bit

right and he's got his eyes are kind of

a little extra wide like he's like

a little shocked by everything he sees

but like

composed yeah um we cut to the first

night uh at the asylum for

for kane anyway and uh robert lozia is

in blackface singing to an al jolson

record

in front of uh yeah moses gun is just

watching him

like not super offended but like

unimpressed just like yeah

this is happening and then someone walks

in and turns off the record i think

grouper turns it off

um another inmate fairbanks

uh which is the multiple personality

inmate uh takes a large hammer to a wall

inside the castle and just starts

pounding it in a hole and grouper comes

over and he's like

what are you doing and like tries to

take it away from him and then cain is

like no no no we got to let him do this

like we're going to talk to him and have

a conversation yeah his explanation

about what he's doing

is fabulous because he's he's talking

about how he's trying to

pass through the walls and the molecules

are not accommodating him so

it's like trying to teach them a lesson

yeah he's making an example of the atoms

in this wall

because he believes he can concentrate

hard enough so that the atoms of his

body will arrange themselves so that he

can fit through the holes in that wall

but i love how kane convinces him to

take the hammer he's like

i'd like to study it yeah and he's like

you're not gonna play around with it are

you like no no no no well yeah

because he says it you know it might not

be the problem with the wall

it might be a problem with the molecules

and the hammer so he's going to study it

and the guy's like interesting theory

like already respects him

um but yeah that like just from that

moment already i was like

i already love the dialogue in this

movie and i totally get why it won the

best screenplay golden globe

well and this scene is sort of setting

up like his

um you know his desire to sort of

indulge the inmates to try to

to try to cure them right because he

thinks that uh the resistance that

they've been feeling is not helping

their problem

um and uh so

fell brings cain the patient's files

when cutshaw bursts into the room

and just completely like shatters pieces

of the

yeah like the ceiling comes down every

time he kicks this door open you have

like more chips of plaster falling on

his shoulders because he's just

so violently kicking the door in um and

he's trying to introduce himself and

kind of get a feel for this

the new psychiatrist um he says his name

is

is hudson kane and he says can i call

you hud and then fell the doctor in the

background says

try calling him colonel are you the one

that makes the chicken

colonel kane's a psychiatrist sure and

they told me you were a doctor

this man treats crocodiles for acne

he's just like totally insane already um

and uh he he slowly walks over to the

other doctor and sits down and you hear

the scratch sound

because he's got a bag of fritos in his

pocket and he says

i think the end of the world just came

for that bag of fritos i had

in my pocket but it's just such a

wonderful recurring

like every time he sits down every

single time he sits down there's another

slight crunch

yeah he does it like two or three more

times in this scene and every time you

hear the same

distinctive frito crunch um he demands

that kane read his file out loud

and sits down the frito bag crunches

again

and cutshaw accuses kane of coveting his

saint christopher medal

which by the way there's also a medal in

the exorcist

but it's not a saint christopher medal i

think it gets referred to in the book as

a saint christopher medal but it's a

saint joseph medal in the movie

um yeah i mean you can't really tell

like

the writing in the exorcist on the metal

is right

not but the metal plays an important

part in both of these films it's clearly

uh one of the connective tissues i i

like i like when they

reveal the thing about the metal because

you know the doctor

clearly hadn't even noticed he was

wearing it and then he's like oh you're

coveting it and he's like

you know no i'm not and he's like oh you

don't like it he's like no it's really

it's really lovely and he's like oh i

know you weren't coming in and it's like

saint christopher the patron saint of

travelers

okay interesting as in a traveler to

space

or to vietnam other places mm-hmm

although customers are not wearing it

yeah he's not an army vet

i don't think well he's well he's he's

military he's military

yeah right but he didn't he i don't

think he served with the armed forces

no i was unless they i think they are

implying that he was yeah he's a marine

these are all marines they are all okay

uh but he

he was a marine who then went to into

the space program

okay um he and he keeps saying that he

thinks he's going to steal his medal

and he says well you're gonna now i

gotta worry about you trying to steal my

medal when i'm asleep and he says

well if i were to do that you might

awaken and he says like

hell i'd awaken powerful drugs could be

insinuated into my soup

i just love every single line that this

character says for the whole rest of the

movie

um he puts him through a quick rorschach

test

and his first response is an old woman

in funny clothes throwing poison darts

at a buffalo and then fell corrects him

it's a bison

but then my favorite line in this whole

scene comes actually from uh

from kane because the the third of the

three rorschach tests he says

kafka talking to a bed bug and cain very

like

nonchalant just goes correct you're full

of [ __ ] you know that

is like equal parts furious

and like deeply respectful for this

ridiculous answer

yeah and once again this is like this is

the second time now in the film that we

have kane just

i mean like i think he was trying to be

funny but at the same time

he's just indulging the fantasy yeah

because he's like

we're just going to be weird with this

guy because he's weird that's the

his language is this the part where he

says who are you you're too human to be

human

yeah he might it might be i know he says

it to kane in in the office

yeah there's there's a few times where

he makes the observation he's like

what is up with this guy he can't get a

read on him um

he throws up in the door again to leave

and a bunch of ceiling dust breaks apart

again

um and then reno follows a dog into

kane's office

and uh he says he saw a grouper in a

cypress tree talking to an

owl i couldn't hear what they were

saying they were whispering

yes and uh and fell says well there's

there's no cypress trees on the grounds

and he says well a cypress tree can be

dug up and anyone with money can fill a

hole and he's like i hadn't considered

that

very clever i love how phil just lays on

the couch with his back turns like okay

i'm just gonna i'm gonna take a nap

during this whole day yeah

i've had enough of these people for

today already

um his uh the dog that he brought into

the office is auditioning

for reno's adaptations of shakespeare

plays for dogs

well it's not just any dog it's it's a

pooly right this one is a pulley yeah

um i forget what part well weren't they

saying he was going to be

hamlet well he's he did say that he was

worried about casting a great dane

like right oh i i just ass yeah that

made me laugh really hard

i just assumed that they were casting

the pooly so they wouldn't cast a great

date maybe that was

maybe that was his point there um but uh

then spinel walks in uh

his assistant in the audition

process for the the dog plays and spinel

is played by joe spinelle

a character that is not in the book or

script for this movie and it's just a

personal friend of william blatties who

was like

please put me in this movie um by the

way i looked into it

joe spinell by the way we had earlier

already do you remember joe spinell

uh no he was in cruising

he was one of the cops that was uh

shouting at the transvestite hookers at

the beginning of the movie

and was like abusing them in the car

well i like the k i like his character

in this movie because he's just this

great

foil to uh with reno renault

our casting director like he's just who

by the way is played by

uh father uh father karis father karasi

from uh from the exorcist um and i

i neglected to mention this before joe

spinell so

this is his second film in 1980 for us

he will appear in

six more films on our schedule this year

oh geez

this year alone so he'll be in eight

films in 1980

eight films in 1980 the other six coming

down the pipe we have

the little dragons he was in a forbidden

zone oh

he's in maniac brew baker melvin and

howard and the first deadly sin so we're

going to see a lot of joe spinell over

the course of this he must have just

been friends with like everyone in

hollywood i think so

we also need to mention uh returning for

uh tom atkins

right yeah uh krebs yeah krebs he's one

of the the soldiers that's uh

working here at the at the um asylum

did we see tom atkins already he was uh

uh jamie lee curtis's boyfriend yes yes

yes i recall now yes

um and spinel as he's entering the room

is showing

uh a dog that he's considering for

either rosencranster guildenstern

but reno is mad because it's the wrong

gender the rosencrantz to kill this

turner man and this is a female dog

i don't know why that's a problem it's

obviously not

i don't i don't know why gender bending

would be a problem in shakespeare we do

it all the time

yeah just call him rose rose and

guild those are both girls or jill

gilda stern there you go so yeah

uh at night kane agrees with fell's

theory that

shock therapy could be curative he

thinks that

banish which is robert loge's character

manny thorazine

and uh he asks krebs for a key to the

medicine cabinet because

fell isn't around now but that's just a

pretense right

i'm pretty sure it is uh he seems

already stoned when he's saying that

but he's like i need to get into the

medicine cabinet i don't have a key

where can i find a key and he said

oh foul has one but he's not here right

now and he says is there another key to

the medicine cabinet

and you think oh he's d he's diagnosed

that

logia's character needs thorazine but he

doesn't have a key to the cabinet and

falls out for the night so we're just

going to have to skip that dosage

no they didn't skip the dosage no no

do you believe at this point that krebs

is in on what's happening

um because we know later that groper

isn't

but krebs seems to have this weird kind

of

he does seem like he like he's more

knowledgeable right and like and overly

respectful

to him maybe well i thought that was

just because he was younger yeah i was

gonna say it's a military thing and he's

senior to him but he's senior to grouper

too i mean grouper is having to do

everything that he says

yeah but i think grouper in general is

just kind of

it's just more straight-laced and it

isn't cool with the indulging

inmates yeah i don't know if that's it

could be it could be either

it could go either way because i wasn't

clear and and

like i said he just seems to have like

this like a kinship like he's always

kind of like kind of happy to be around

yeah colonel kane he's like anything

else sir like he like

yeah like just like just being friendly

and

and i and i was and he is trying to be

helpful here even though he's just like

it

it comes down to no i don't have a key

yeah so

and he says oh well we'll have to talk

about making a one because i should have

one too

and it's like do we trust you around

these drugs i don't know maybe maybe we

do

um so now after this conversation with

krebs uh

cut shop bursts into the office clippers

and trunks

and says hey let's go to the beach let's

go and king says

well it's night not raining it's raining

and he says

i see you're determined to start an

argument this is just such a great line

um uh cutshaw says that he doesn't

believe in god

and they have a long conversation about

it that he does believe in the devil he

doesn't believe in god but he does

believe in the devil

um and he keeps referring to god as a

foot

um because he's just like oh well i

might just but it's it's basically like

the spaghetti monster

right right where it's just like oh well

whatever we can say he is whatever we

want to say and

and uh and he just gives a lot of

examples of like terrible things that

happen in the real world

that there can't be a god there's only a

devil because there's so much evil

yeah um and it specifically see

it seems like he's referring to like

terrible things that that he's seen done

in the war um not even

having to do with his breakdown at space

there's so many of these scenes that

come together so i always forget which

one is this the one where he says name

one thing that was good

i think he does that more than once but

he does he does have part of that

conversation um

but he's just every time he tries to

bring up an example of something good he

says oh

he says like oh well what about when

someone jumps on a grenade to save his

friends and he says oh that's just a

reflex

and he says what about when someone like

who's sick on a

lifeboat jumps overboard to protect

everyone else and then he says

i can't remember how he defuses that

well he wants but he wants to

he wants an example that he's seen that

he's personally seen in his life

of that like selfless good yeah but yeah

so

they they have this conversation in

multiple parts over the course of the

movie but i think that's as much as we

get

in this scene um some of the soldiers

speak with

fell about a plan they have to sell to

the higher-ups

like we see where fell is when he's out

of the office and he's

walking to a gate with a bunch of other

like generals or

higher-up military figures um and

they're telling him like oh so do you

think it's gonna work

like are we going to be able to talk

them through this plan and

we don't really know what the plan is

but there's something going on behind

the scenes that he's a part of

right um reno and spinel sit at the

table

casting different dog breeds for

different roles in hamlet this is a

fabulous scene

reno's just getting angrier and angrier

just

naming off roles and dog breeds one

after the other

yeah it's just it's wonderful and then

it's like he starts to

like shout at spinel because he's he

doesn't like spinel sarcastic responses

to everything

and he's like polonius and he's like you

you're not taking me seriously you're

not

you're not listening to what i'm saying

and we need to have him he's like

polonius like i don't i'm

done listening just tell me what kind of

dog we need for polonius and he's like

a chow and he's like a chow

and that's like enough to set reno like

off like just like oh god

you're so furious and they're working on

the the star

dog in the background is like having

problems breathing or something like

i didn't notice that well one there's

like a doctor the fake doctor is saying

to the dog and he says i think this dog

is suffocating

oh well that yeah cause it's so it's a

pulley and if you if you're familiar

with pulleys they're the

they look like they have dreadlocks like

they have these these you know

long tight knotted curls of hair it

looks like a mop

it's a giant mop but then after reno

like flips out on him and gets angry and

like storms off but spinel's like

nah challenge that bad like he's like i

wasn't even trying

to criticize that was that's a good

choice

reno and cutshaw are sitting in a tree

the next day

and uh reno is telling cutshaw that he

thinks that

that kane is crazy um he says that he's

gregory peck and spellbound he's nuts

he's uh you got to keep an eye on this

guy because i can't get a read on him

either

so i've never seen spellbound but based

on the context it seems like it's got a

similar plot

like that that we have a crazy military

person

is that you know i didn't actually look

into it have you seen that richard

what's the other one

with the the captain that goes crazy the

boat captain

that goes crazy and they have to mutiny

k mutiny

is it the kane mutiny that that's that's

the reference i thought he would have

made here

uh wait the k like is it spelled the

same like is is

is kane's last name a reference to that

film no no it's it's kane's

name is actually a reference when he

first uh mentions killer kane in the in

when he's talking about his brother as

the soldier killer kane is the bad guy

from buck rogers

what is buck rogers it's like flash

recording yeah it's like the original

like

future futurist comic strip okay and

it was made into like serialized shows

and movies uh spellbound is according to

him to be a psychiat a psychiatric

a psychiatrist protects the identity of

an amnesia patient accused of murder

while attempting to recover his memory

so

so but i'm assuming that maybe he is the

person

um that maybe that's the twist i don't

know it's a hitchcock movie so so it

probably is a twisty thing like he is he

didn't like twists so it's probably not

that yeah okay

um uh loja

uh comes into the office and is shouting

in kane's face

you're not a large man stand here and

fungus up to my [ __ ] you

bastard you're a giant brain please give

me back my flying belt

i will use it to escape i swear to god

this whole

tear that he goes on is really

incredible and it's just a

masterpiece from largia and he wants his

rocket belt yeah he's like i want my

flying belt back please just give me my

flying belt back

i know you have it and these people come

into the office to take him away and he

starts shouting at them

and the voice that he's using to shout

at them reminded me of like when

beetlejuice starts shouting

it's like freaking out on them um but

it's so great

and uh and then in this dream sequence

that we have and

is this kane's dream with the astronaut

on the moon

well well i mean this is kane's dream

but it doesn't he

he claims it doesn't belong to him it

belonged to his brother uh

so yes yeah so kane is having this dream

and an astronaut is on what i think is

supposed to be the moon but there's

these really tall crystals

sprouting out of it so this is what i

wanted to ask when we got to this moment

yeah does this movie

in this universe has man gone to the

moon

because vietnam spanned a long time so

at this point

have we been to the moon because cut

shell was supposed to go there

alone well the book the original

book came out in 66 so that was pre-moon

correct

pre-moon but

by now for the writing of the movie we

are aware of in the year the story takes

place have we been to the moon

or was there a setback but your space

program but here's the thing

this is i couldn't wrap my head around

this and i'm sorry if i'm going to go on

a little bit of a tirade on this

the rocket that we see that cutshaw is

about to board

is not enough to get to them

it's to get to orbit but not to the moon

and and it's certainly

you wouldn't they did we didn't go to

the moon alone never have gone to the

moon

just one person right not even to to

like orbit

the moon it is a multiple crew required

yeah one of them doesn't even get to go

to the moon

yeah you have to like pilot the thing

that floats around the moon uh so

this vision of the moon seems to be

based on

a vision of we have not yet been to the

moon even though the

so so you're saying it's like a milie

stylistic moon

but it also could just be the naive

dream of a person

who who hasn't had no experience with

you know space exploration right

but it's possible that

uh him aborting this mission was such a

setback for the space program that they

had to put off the moon landing for

extra time and as a result the people on

this planet don't know what the surface

of the moon looks

that's what i'm trying to comprehend i

mean i think

technically speaking we knew what the

surface of the moon looked like because

you could see it from here

with the telescope but

someone could imagine potentially for

the purposes of a dream

like a psychedelic dream that they're

having that the moon has these big

crystallic crystal like structures yeah

also crucifixes

right also jesus being crucified yeah so

so then my question stands in this movie

has mankind been to the moon and you're

right that's a question for blatty

in my opinion and i'll say no yeah i was

going to go with this

as well um so i think it is interesting

that we're trying to like suss out if

this guy if this astronaut is crazy or

not because

is the implication like stop being crazy

we're going to send you to the moon the

second we figure out you're faking it

like would they honestly still want to

send him to them yeah

well he's a lunatic oh he's perfect

no for sure they they had a back-up

person that they would have sent that

day

probably um but

but yeah so in this dream an astronaut

is walking around on the moon does he

plant a flag classic

right in front of this crucifix and then

he turns around and like

kind of like looks up at jesus looks up

but like in kind of like a

either a pelvic thrust kind of motion

but it doesn't actually do the thrust he

just has

arms out outstretched outstretched

reaching for the crucifixion we'll throw

a screen

arms outstretched and your go-to is it's

kind of like a pelvic thrust yeah

well because he is kind of like archie's

back but he's

but i would have more thought leaning

back with your arms open was more or

less like

an awe thing or taking something in well

maybe he had dropped to his knees

but it looked like he was about to go

like a fonzie like hey

maybe that's what he was doing on set

um but this scene they actually shot

this scene on the moon no

no it was it was it was on the sound

stage it was the same sound stages

[Laughter]

um but yeah so uh he wakes up from that

dream

and fell as in his room so cain tells

fell about this dream that he had this

moon dream or i guess he doesn't really

tell him the details of the dream

yeah he wakes up from a nightmare and

says he had this terrible dream

and that it's a dream that he inherited

from someone else but i'm convinced that

the dream he's talking about is not the

moon dream

that when he says he had a terrible

dream that happened to someone else

he's not because he didn't have any

other astronaut patients up to this

point

when he says he had a terrible dream i

think he's talking about something we

see later in the film

uh that happened in vietnam but he says

it wasn't even something that happened

to me it was a dream that a patient had

that he told me about and i've been

having it ever since

and then he mentions that the specific

patient was

this famous psychopath from vietnam

who people refer to as killer kane and

he just kind of went nuts and killed a

bunch of people

um and and his name got around that he

was famous fell recognizes the name

um first as the villain from buck rogers

but then

um says oh yeah you're talking about the

vietnam guy yeah i've heard of him i

actually met him once we palled around

for a while and he's like yeah he was my

brother

he's a murderer yeah which is why so now

we know that there's two canes

and one of them is a murderer and

he says oh you how how is your brother i

haven't seen him in a long time

and he said he's dead and right after he

says he's dead someone else busts in the

office to talk to him

and fell immediately steps outside the

office and just bursts into tears

outside the room which i'm not clear on

what the tears like what he's actually

feeling here if he's

if he's upset or if he's well i think i

think it does make sense by the end of

the film

i mean i mean we could talk about it now

i think we should save it

um we'll come back to the tears for sure

because i think it is an important

moment for that character

uh grouper comes in complaining that an

inmate has been writing love letters to

nearby women

um under his name

[Laughter]

he's also especially offended by the

fact that

uh the letters have been faked to look

like they came out of a mimeograph like

they literally say to occupant

like he's so desperate for a woman that

he's sending this to every single house

that doesn't have time to address them

properly but he's also really upset

about the fact that the women were ugly

right some of them called the facility

and he said that he invited the women

with like nicer sounding voices

to come down to the building and they

showed up and they're ugly and that's

why he's offended

but there's there's no real resolution

to this plot point

it's just another funny terrible thing

that they did to grouper reno comes in

to debate

with kane whether hamlet is actually

crazy in the story of hamlet

um because experts uh

vacillate between saying he's pretending

to be crazy

or he actually is crazy and he only

thinks he's pretending to be crazy

and then uh kane asks what rina's

opinion is and reno kind of

spells out the story a little bit and

then kane elaborates to

agree with him basically that he's not

crazy

and by pretending to be crazy he's

actually protecting himself from going

insane because of everything that's

happening around him

and reno is so excited to hear that kane

agrees with him

and that the dog was wrong the whole

point of this

conversation was for the dog to overhear

it and to understand

hamlet's motivation because the dog had

disagreed with him

about whether or not hamlet was crazy i

love the analogies

to you know to the movie itself in here

i think it's just really nicely

written yeah and then after reno leaves

with the dog

kane turns to fel and says we need to

get some supplies

we're going to indulge the men which is

when the movie gets like turned up an

extra notch into crazy town

um reno kicks a dog out of auditions

that did a terrible job

namek comes out from behind the curtain

wearing a superman costume with an n

where the

s should be um which is pretty clear

what this this african-american

character's nickname would have been in

the at the time

yeah um no nonsense man no nonsense

or maybe it's just namek for his name

but he says there's no place for a

superhero in this shakespeare play stop

trying to force superheroes into this

and then

loja flies by

in his flight belt it just leaves us

like

really gently puffs of smoke lingering

in the air

it's very like a steampunk invention um

there's the sound it makes like

yeah and then you just hear him crash

off camera

like head first into a wall um and then

a team of medics run by but it's like

the crazy

fake medic people and one of which is

dressed one of

is a bearded man dressed as a male

female nurse yes

yeah i just i like the idea that there

are

lead crazy people who have these like

crazy fantasies and then they're

supporting crazy people

like you know the nurses and the great

escape crew

yeah where they're like you know they're

going through the whole things like tom

dick and harry naming the yeah name on

all the tunnels

um i also think so what do you guys

think do you think that

loja had a flight belt the whole time

and this is it or do you think this is

part of their indulging and he literally

got a flight belt from the military

yeah i think it's part of the indulging

yeah i think so too i think he literally

was like

we need a some sort of a jet pack which

is funny because when they call they

so so they call to get the supplies and

and and the guys on the other end are

just like

what is going on what what is this you

know what is the astronaut

like you know outfit for yeah and no

they didn't bring up a flight belt but i

think i would be questioning that

slightly more than all the dogs and

astronaut outfits

yeah and vintage world war ii uh nazi

uniform says uniforms

yeah that's great um

he comes into the office and he's like

why do i have to wear this and he's like

it's for it's a common form of therapy

where

we're uh we're letting them identify as

the allied soldiers

and and they're the prisoners and we're

the guards and he's like

we're the prisoners and he freaks out on

cain but this is the first time kane

actually loses it back on him

he's like you're gonna wear that uniform

sleep in it

bathe it try to take it off and you'll

die in it

is that clear and groupers just like

shake into the bone

yeah and turns around and walks out but

he he wears his uniform for the rest of

the time that he's supposed to

which isn't very long because cut shot

immediately comes in and says tomorrow

we're switching roles

here's here's the script um you'll

notice you crack in

hour three of the interrogation or

something like that

or page three or whatever he says um and

then he like sits down and tries to read

his face again he's like who are you

what are you i can't figure you out

and then he tells them the story of pt

barnum's panther and lamb

show which impressed everyone because a

pantheon or lamb seemed to be

best friends but what wasn't clear to

the audience but was the actual fact is

that

every day at intermission the panther

would eat the lamb and they would

replace it

so it seemed like these two animals got

along swimmingly when in fact it was

just because the panther was full

and cut shaw talks about pain and death

and how god wouldn't allow it

cain continues to speak in defense of

religion and that maybe god's plan is

beyond us to understand

and all these things terrible things

have to happen for his plan to work out

maybe the pain is important to the plan

um and this is where they have the the

conversation about whether there's

uh such thing as a selfless sacrifice

which is actually a conversation that

um recurs in an episode of friends

where phoebe is trying to say that you

can be selfless

and help people oh except she feels good

every time she's and they're like oh

well you help someone so you feel good

about it so it's not selfless

and finally at the end of the episode

her act of selflessness is to let a bee

sting her

now you know the bee probably died after

he stung me

damn it i guess we could also call back

saturn three

sure yeah with the one lesson that uh

hector couldn't learn would be

the self-sacrifice self-sacrifice he

doesn't understand that don't understand

will smith was right robots just don't

understand

that's what he said right that was on

the irobot soundtrack

it's okay it's got problems but it's

okay is it okay

i like it i you know what i'm not a

faithful adaptation

no i will say i enjoy the movie i robot

all right he's going on the record i

don't recommend anyone watch it

you enjoy it but don't watch it after

this uh

conversation slash argument cutshaw asks

kane to take him to mass tomorrow

he does and cutshaw basically

embarrasses him for

i think he recognizes the priest and

it's like oh is that so-and-so like

calling out his name and

the priest like seems to be familiar

with him because he's like immediately

like oh god this guy's here

yeah for a moment cain sees like a

vietnamese boy superimposed where

a caucasian altar boy just was right and

then he switches back

so he's like kind of freaking out here

um

cutshaw stands up and as soon as he

starts talking the priest who's like not

even facing him just like

starts shaking his head like oh god no

please don't do this

and he just stands up and says infinite

goodness

means creating a being that you know in

advance

is going to complain i just cut

immediately away

from this scene like that was probably

just the beginning of a whole

long lecture that he gave to the entire

church but then comes

a very important line as they return to

the hospital

the if there's an afterlife and you die

first

will you give me a sign right and he

says i'll try

yeah um so cut shaw says that to kane

correct yeah and kane says i'll try um

so back at the castle uh the

inexplicable

pacific northwest castle uh loja in a

full space suit approaches kane

and asks for his mail he's like is there

any mail for me my mom used to send me

cheesecakes when i was on mars for a few

years

um and he's like oh yeah no there's

nothing

sorry and he he's like oh that's fine

and he turns and just walks through

like a bunch of paintings that are stood

up yeah and just like knocks them all

over as he walks out of the room

krebs tells kane that there's a new

patient in his office

and that he seems like a pretty normal

guy but he's obviously here so he's got

some kind of problem

um and as soon as kane turns to see the

guy

it's someone who he served with and uh

and the guy recognizes him and it says

killer kane

it's killer kane uh confirming what i'm

sure we all suspected at this point

that the crazy vietnam vet was actually

kane here

not his brother and then we get

an insane flashback it's from the

perspective of this patient

who sees cain through some trees and

some leaves

and he says what's going on kane what

what are you holding there

and kane's standing there in the rain

forget about it i cut off his head with

the wire

and he kept on talking why do you hold

it

and we get this shot of this corpse

lying behind him

and he's holding this vietnamese boy's

head it looks like a

10 12 year old kid and it is horrifying

this shot

it's a fully realistic looking head for

the way that they framed it and shot it

here

and this movie is just like

constantly sidelining you with these

insane images

and i i was shaken after like even

re-watching it today to like prep my

notes for this i was like

oh my god this is crazy this scene so

it seems like in the aftermath of i

don't i don't know if this is like a

single victim

incident or if this was like a me lie

and this is like just the aftermath

yeah i get the impression that this is

not the only person that he went crazy

and killed

no i i think i think the implication

that he this is the

one the the uh straw yeah that broke the

camel yeah because they mentioned

earlier when they talk about this

the killer cane person did he killed a

lot that he killed a lot of people like

i even forget i forget the number but

you know one guy

said a number and the other ones and

then king no it was like

you know 37 or something like that it

was much higher than whatever he thought

it was

yeah and the other one tried in and dr

felicia says well it's in service

you're a hero doing what he had to do

yeah um and it seems like in the

aftermath of

this breakdown that he had that either

well

not a computer heir at the time a

paperwork mishap

yeah caused him to be sent to this psych

ward as a doctor because there is

another colonel kane

who is his brother yes it turns out his

brother is is also

a colonel and who his last name is cain

and is a psychiatrist and they mistook

him for his brother and so sent him to

the hospital to work

cain passes out after this encounter

with the patient who remembers his past

cutshaw finds out what happened and goes

crazy completely destroys kane's office

and is shouting at grouper um that

you know this this guy is the killer you

brought the killer in here like he's

freaking out about it because he's like

i was right the whole time this guy's a

psychopath we need to get him out of

here what are you doing

the staff does their best to contain

this information

they get the new patient on board and

say like you can convince these people

that

that you were mistaken right because

we're trying to keep this under wraps

cain doesn't seem to remember any of

what happened when he wakes up

well so he explains all of this in a

room with

all of the others all the guards yeah

the guards so krebs is there and

grouper's there so they're they're all

sitting there and they're they're

clearly like

not happy with this because this guy

came in and

uprooted their lives to you know indulge

all these

you know psychopath fantasies right um

and and now they have to just go along

because the idea is that

going along with this will cure him

right but also

he thinks that um and it seems

to be true that kane has a better chance

of getting through to these inmates

i don't know if even inmates is the

right word but the people here at this

ascent the patience here

it seems like cain has a better chance

of getting through to them than any of

the doctors have had

but also that by getting through to them

he will cure himself

so if he's able to fix even one person

there it will offset some of the guilt

he has for what he's they're trying to

have him

work through this by doing some sort of

redeeming act right

um and this is where fell reveals that

he is the other colonel kane he's the

actual psychiatrist

hudson kane and that vincent kane killer

kane

is his brother um that he orchestrated

this transfer

and wants to keep an eye on his brother

to make sure that he stays safe

so this explains his tearful

exit right and that is when he says

he's dead that's when he loses it

because he's realizing that

that not only has his brother assumed

his identity

but that he thinks of himself as dead

like

the person he was before doesn't exist

anymore and so

for i think the point is supposed to be

that for hudson that he's

that he's lost his brother here correct

he's crying at the death of his brother

like the psychological death of the

brother that he grew up with

see i wasn't clear on that because at

the same time his

motivation here is to

get his brother over this you know cr

you know crazy whatever he was going

through

in the war where he was killing all

these people and get him past that and

get him back to the brother that he

used to be right and and this this

revelation from

kane is that that brother is is no more

there is no vincent kane anymore he's

dead

so you don't get him back the best thing

you're gonna get is this confused guy

who doesn't seem to know who he is

because your brother is dead so is

so is fell's actual name hudson kane

yes okay sorry yeah so while they're

having

these conversations uh cut shaw still

angry about

the revelation steals a car and drives

it out of the asylum to a nearby

like biker bar which

which then follows just

the craziest i was like i felt like this

is

a movie on its own yeah it's like 25

minutes this ballroom scene yeah it's

like the whole last quarter of the movie

takes place in this bar

these guys are just as crazy as our

patients

yeah they feel like a precursor to

the biker gang from road warrior not

even like the mad max people but

specifically the road warrior people

they're all peacock in it

they've got like eye shadow on and weird

like flourishes in their hair

but they're also strangely eloquent yeah

like

the way they refer to each other like

it's it's richard and stanley are the

two kind of leaders

yeah of of the gang and then why would

anybody refer to themselves as

richard well yeah

which is also my nickname yeah wheels

and stick yeah

it's a complicated story richard wheels

yeah we get it all right just one time i

wrote my name wrong

[Laughter]

and then i stabbed myself out of anger

but uh also i got really excited when i

saw one of the other biker gang

uh who's that tim rosavich wait is he in

there of

the political prisoner of macgyver oh my

gosh i totally missed that

in the credits tim rosevich yeah so he

is

he's got a couple of clear shots and

then a couple of

like little bit of lines here and there

he hands something to richard stanley

now he's the one who played for the

oilers right he was an nfl player

correct yeah and he so he had

he also had the the episode friends

right where he was uh

the husband of the photographer woman

right and he played for the titans

oh yeah he says he in that episode of

macgyver folks look up this episode of

macgyver no dawn it's always the

time but um he says that he plays for

the titans

but the titans didn't exist as a team

yet

and he played for the oilers who became

the titans

i don't understand there's got to be an

explanation to that that we don't

understand

but but i just wanted to bring up

another macgyver connection yes

no we have to touch on them but yeah and

uh

another uh character in this scene well

we see cut shot sitting at the table

and the bikers are recognizing him from

appearances he's made on television

or maybe reports about yeah the famous

failed astronaut

um like i mean obviously i didn't uh

you know live through the great space

race and

and see astronauts on television but i

don't think i could recognize a single

astronaut

well now you could no i'm saying that i

don't think

you wouldn't recognize buzz if he showed

up right now probably not

oh i would recognize buzz aldrin okay

probably nobody else

probably just buzz um

he's got that dome over his head

okay baby in uniform he's got that

purple thing on his arm that he shoots

lasers with

it's like i can name a lot of astronauts

that's only because i've seen like the

right stuff

sure 13 and things like that is like

yeah oh i know that guy he looks exactly

like kevin bacon

it's just like people from movies

but yeah so cut shaw is sitting at a at

a booth and he has

uh five shots yeah he has five scotches

in front of him and he stops a waitress

and orders a sixth one

and she says you have five there and he

says i wanted six

but the woman playing this waitress is

linda blatty who is

william peter blatty's wife um

and then a fight breaks out um an insane

fight

uh the the head biker goes and sits

opposite

cutshaw in the booth and calls him out

for who he is well he's got a bet with

the other guy yeah then he's like you

know

this is this is the astronaut and like

tell tell him who you are and

then he rips his dog tag he's got his

dog tags off his neck he's like look see

this is the guy this is cut shot i told

you and then they beat up cutshaw for

like

probably eight minutes before

kane finally arrives because he's woken

up and found out what happened and

decides that he's gonna interrupt this

beating

well yeah he finds out what happens

because the because the waitress

trying to help the guy out obviously not

wanting to take on this entire break

again goes into the back room to make a

phone call

calls the operator and says is there

some sort of like

institution around here for military

servicemen and i'm just like

first of all weird weird coincidence

that you would ask that yeah weirdly

specific that you would think this guy

is crazy

and he's in the military so there must

be a

a place around here where he's supposed

to be and that the operator then could

find you a phone number for that one yes

also 9-1-1

is the number you were looking for yeah

i'm just going to call and ask for some

random military installation

psych ward i don't need to call the

police um

but when kane shows up they basically

just rope him into their bullying

and they start forcing him to do

humiliating things like

one of the first things is they tell him

to say things to the

to the room full of people like marines

all suck yeah and

every time he does it it makes them more

angry yeah because they think

he won't do it and we'll get to beat him

up but he keeps doing it and we can't

beat him up and that makes me mad

then they tell him to lick the floor and

then he licks the floor

but they don't show it right and i think

that that

it's because stacy keach was like no i'm

not gonna lick the floor

uh probably uh

i i i was thinking more that they they

have humiliated the marines enough and

this is one thing that they will they

were going to show in the movie they

weren't going to show the market's doing

this

um and they go back to beating on

cutshaw for a while

um and then it seems like they're like

sexually assaulting him

oh yeah um against the bar and everyone

is just

watching like all the the whole crowd

that was gathered there

is just smiling and watching them

sexually assault cutshaw on the floor

and then uh they shoved kane around for

a while

and then he loses it oh yeah it's it's

really magical i i was waiting for it

the whole time the tension build up

is perfect yeah like it gets just to the

point where you're like

come on just kill these guys

and even the introduction for it is so

slow when he finally does lose it

his hand is just slowly reaching into

frame towards the

big bad biker and wraps around his hand

on the glass that he's holding

and even like the second their hands

touch the biker knows like

i am totally screwed here uh and

the both of their hands are shaking like

he's gripping him tighter and tighter

and tighter

until finally the glass shatters in the

biker's hand and just slices

all of his fingers in the palm of his

hand open and he opens his hand and it's

just covered in like bloody glass

and he just starts wailing on everybody

i think he kills everyone except for cut

shots yeah i did not expect that like

he starts to go crazy and i'm like oh

great he's finally beating him up and

then they

they show bystanders

everyone's dead i don't think he killed

the waitress that called

no the facility we don't see her in the

aftermath but yeah that woman gets her

head thrown against the back of the bar

room

yeah and uh so and then

presumably word has already gotten back

to the facility because the police are

there

with foul or i keep calling him fell

he's he's hudson kane

well that's how he's credited yeah

and they say well i know you wanted your

brother to come back here but that's

really not an option anymore he killed

like 18 people at a bar well he is back

there

yeah he made it back before the police

got there but the police

said he can't stay here we want to take

him into custody and you have to give

him to us well

they let's like give them to us or we're

going to just go drag him out of here

ourselves we'll go find him

but then groper totally steps up

yeah he's like you just wait a second

like even

you're like i was like yeah come on yeah

we got more people here than you did

you didn't bring enough people here to

tell us what we can and can't do

um and we have this scene with uh

kacha and uh kane sitting in a chair

wearing like a trench coat near a

fireplace and they have

basically the the culmination of their

conversation where kasha finally tells

him

why won't you go to the moon yeah what

what his problem was and why he had the

breakdown and

he confesses that he

had a very strong suspicion that he

would die there which was given to him

by reagan

who tells him you're going to die up

there and the exorcist

and that if uh if he died in space that

he would die all alone he's terrified of

dying alone

and he's having a conflict of faith and

if there's no god

then dying in space is as alone as you

could possibly die

like if there is a god then at least

you're dying and you're going to end up

in a place with someone but if you die

in space and god doesn't exist

then you're dying as alone as anything

has ever died in the history of

life and that's terrifying to him and

that's why he had his breakdown

um and cutshaw says that he's going to

show him that true

that that love can exist in this world

and that

a selfless love can exist cain kind of

falls asleep in the chair like he passes

out yeah

well yeah well yeah as far as cutshaw

knows kane passed out in this chair

probably exhausted from this bar room

fight exhausted from killing 25

yeah um and he goes over to kane on the

chair and kind of lifts the

saint christopher's medal but then like

leaves it on him he's like no

no you you keep it and uh and he walks

out of the room and then he notices that

there's blood on his shoe

when he's not bleeding and kane wasn't

visibly bleeding and then he realizes

that kane didn't just fall asleep that

cain has been stabbed

but kane stabbed himself yeah no yeah he

hasn't been stabbed he

yeah yeah he gutted him he gutted

himself with the knife that the biker

had he took the knife

and as soon as cutshell walks out of the

room we see the knife fall out of

kane's jacket covered in blood and his

hand is covered in blood because he

he cut himself open um i'm not exactly

sure how this is a selfless act

well it comes into play later okay but

he kills himself here

cutshaw carries his body downstairs it

feels like an edward scissorhands moment

oh yeah

uh where she walked down with all the

scissor hands and she's like oh he fell

out the window they both died

yeah so just leave him alone but instead

it looks like i totally just killed this

guy

yeah yeah that's true it does look like

that too but he's he's

like like just shaking and upset sure

as he's carrying this body down the

stairs i don't even know how he's

carrying this he's probably wearing a

brace or something yeah because he is a

very slight man

in this movie and kane is a bigger guy

yeah stacy keach is a large man although

he's very thin in this movie there's a

couple scenes like early in the movie

where he's like standing and he's like

he's broad-shouldered but he's very thin

here

thinner than i remember seeing him but

uh

fell knows that he didn't kill him

because he's seen these two

act as friends this whole time he knew

what was coming right and

so obviously he's devastated to have

lost his brother again

um and because we did some very

elaborate things to try to save this man

yes very expensive military

money we're not gonna get back uh we're

in a war right now what are we doing

yeah so now we cut to months years later

who knows

yeah the place is shut down yeah um

cutshaw is pulling up

in a in a car he's being driven but he

pulls up in a car

with a license plate that just says nasa

yeah so

i maybe he works at nasa again and is

working in official capacity

or he's just a crazy person who bought a

vanity plate like the

answer that would be when you go into an

institution you don't get to hire

back no but i think he i think he is

though i think that i think the

implication is that he's totally cured

that he has a

he has a subordinate that is driving him

around i don't think he's for nasa

i don't think he's an astronaut anymore

like i don't think he's literally gonna

center getting sent on a mission

but i think he's there he he works in

the facility he has some kind of a desk

job at nasa now yeah

i i i felt that he was a veteran

who was being escorted i don't know why

it would say

side of the car said nasa not just the

vanity plate the side of the car

said nasa okay so it's got it's a nasa

car so he likes nasa and painted nasa on

his car

why would nasa drive him out there

because he wanted to see the facility

because he's an important man at nasa

yeah he's important enough i don't think

the the

chauffeur is picking where he goes i

think he told the guy to take him to

this hospital

and he had access to a company car

because because of all those nasa

facilities in the pacific

yeah he drove from florida

[Laughter]

that really doesn't make any sense oh no

this is a rental car we rented it at the

nasa rental

it's like it's like the old mail

prospect uh police car

yeah it's like why is this here this

doesn't make sense

but um so uh cutshaw goes inside

and he looks from room to room for any

kind of a sign

because uh he was promised by kane that

if there was an afterlife he would give

him an indication

and uh he doesn't find anything and he

stands where

cain's desk was and pulls a letter out

of his pocket

and reads it and it's a letter from kane

that says that he killed himself this is

where he's admitting where we're finding

out that

he committed suicide so that he could do

this one

final thing and this is where we get the

recurring

the the phrase shock treatment right

where he says like not a literal shock

like electrocution but i'm shocking you

with this information

to cure you so kane went to this bar

to die right he must have written this

letter before

he went to the bar or

at some point before because he

certainly was in no condition to write

it

on his quote unquote death chair

yeah i i don't know actually it didn't

occur to me when he wrote this letter

and i mean the timing between him

getting back and the police arriving

isn't super clear

but he was in no condition i feel like

physically yeah maybe to to thoughtfully

write a letter

or maybe he wrote this letter the second

he he had developed that relationship

with cutshaw and was like

you know when i die give this letter to

cutshaw like there's

he doesn't mention the bar fight or

anything so it's not like he couldn't

have written it earlier but we're

hearing little clips of the conversation

about proving that there's an afterlife

but he doesn't find anything here

and when he gets back in the car to

drive away

he realizes oh what i have the saint

christopher medal

and he like accuses the driver of having

planted it on him and the driver's like

i don't know what you're talking about

and he turns it over in his hand to see

that it is in fact his saint christopher

medal

right that was presumably buried with

kane i'm gonna say that's probably the

case

but the implication is that this is the

sign from kane that there is an

afterlife and i killed myself

specifically so that i could prove to

you that there's an afterlife so that

you don't have to go crazy when you die

that there's no god or higher power

so that you can spend the rest of your

life knowing that there's something

greater than us

yeah and that's the last shot of the

movie we freeze frame on him in the car

yeah i didn't like that which we didn't

need to do uh but i also don't like that

he finds it in the car

it should have been in the building

somewhere you should have been in the

building somewhere

like i mean i know you could think that

oh he just dropped it but i mean

the mirror calling 34th street cane you

know leaning up against the fireplace or

something yeah

like even because the whole place is

emptied out

so you wouldn't think that someone would

have just

left this sitting in the middle of a

room yeah it would have to have been a

sign that's what he went there to

find yeah why it's in the car

and it's an 80-yard line while out

outside of the car

you don't see him find it in the car

yeah it's like an overhead shot and he

says wait stop the car

what is this where did the christopher

middle come from and then it shows them

in the car it's like

i feel like it was an afterthought it

was an afterthought and or

or the scene was him in the car and he

finds the metal

and ends on that note but they it wasn't

clear enough so they had to add this

line

well yeah because otherwise they would

have thought that he had it the whole

time right

yeah that's possible it's also um

interesting because these two things are

countries apart

the the set of the actual building is in

hungary and then pulling up in the car

is actually in germany at this castle

right so it would have been shot like

super far apart and obviously a skeleton

crew because it's just the two actors

um but yeah that's the end of the movie

and uh

then we pick up that story with exorcist

three well was

the the line he says like he was a

killer he's like no he was a lamb

yeah he says oh this is this is where

that hospital was right i heard

i heard they had a doctor who was

actually like a killer and he said he

was a lamb

so are we assuming that this is the

parallel the pt barnum story right but i

think

that's just wishful thinking on

cutshaw's part because he's obviously

the panther because like

even his like redeeming thing that he

did was murder 18 people in a bar like

he's still a terrible person

and it's like it's he's friends with you

because he

ate other people like right you're the

lamb he's the panther because

the only reason he didn't kill you is

because he killed a bunch of people

already and he

didn't need to kill another person yet

um

but yeah and that's that's the film it's

incredible i love it i i mean i just

wanted to bring up some interesting

like true go for it because uh blatty

used a lot of actors that he used

before sure and would use actors later

of the same and i really like some of

the original like casting choices of

some of the things like i really liked

his original thought of having nicole

williamson as kane

and i was like oh man i would have

really liked that yeah because i like

nicole

jameson a lot uh but uh

and then i think he was according to

this is michael moriarty

would have played the uh cut shaw

character

uh who i'm not as familiar with i think

scott wilson

nails it no i i agree um but

uh and why i think stacy keach's

performance was interesting

um in my mind like seeing nicole

williamson in that character i was like

oh yeah

you know i don't actually know who

nicole williams is oh uh

he he played in return to oz he was the

doctor slash

gnome king he was in excalibur he was in

the

uh you haven't you haven't sat down and

watched excalibur together yet yeah i

know

well it's 81 so yeah um uh

he was in the seven percent solution the

cereal homes with adam alan arkansas

sure yeah he's a really interesting

actor

uh comedian just had a weird a weird

sense to him almost like peter sellers

where

where like he's really funny or

interesting on screen but his his

outside life is also a little bit

bizarre

yeah and he's got a lot of interesting

philosophies on life and whatnot

uh but yeah so i and he was in exorcist

three playing a character

oh okay uh so he kept up was it was it

just a scheduling conflict that he

wasn't available for this um

the trivia doesn't go into details oh

okay i'm i'm pulling these from the imdb

trivia because i'm lazy uh

but uh i just thought it was interesting

i was like yeah

i like that i like that choice yeah it's

funny i

i like said before i don't think i've

seen stacy keach this young before but

um younger he reminded me

a little bit of doug benson especially

because he looked so stoned in so much

of the footage

but um i feel like he could totally be

doug benson's dad in something he's

still around

oh yeah well he he was great on sketch

was great on titus

yeah that was one of the that's honestly

the first thing i think of for him

he was ken titus the the father of uh

christopher titus on

the show and i didn't watch a lot of

that show

but what i watched of it he was

phenomenal every time

um he's just like the super intimidating

grandfather type character

um uh him and his brother james

will show up later this year in the long

riders yes which is the western that has

like four sets of brothers in it yeah

yeah yeah it's got like the carradines

yeah um yeah who else is in it it's the

carradines

and the queen i think are in there um

he also plays uh sarge stedanko in nice

dreams the chichen chang movie

which i i remember him from that because

i used to play on comedy central all the

time when i was a kid

uh he obviously played mike hammer on uh

television

uh from the mickey spelling detective

novels and

he's also commander malloy an escape

from la which is better than

people remember it is

um i didn't realize that william peter

blaney one of his early credits he

co-wrote

um a shot in the dark the second pink

panther movie oh really with uh

okay blake edwards yeah black edwards um

so i thought that was interesting

um and uh scott wilson as captain billy

cutshaw

a bunch of stuff but probably best known

currently from having played herschel on

the walking dead

well no longer currently but well i'm

saying currently that's what he's known

for

he's passed away he's not still that

character and the character and actor

are both

no longer with us but uh i i mean

i really enjoyed his performance on the

walking dead because

there's not a lot i really fell out of

love with that show

pretty quickly but he was one of the

best parts of that show

yeah uh and he was absolutely fabulous

in this movie and

totally adorable he's really he's really

cute and

endearing the whole time um he's able to

to straddle that line between like

obnoxious and just genuinely funny every

time he says something

and fell says something too uh somewhere

in the middle of the movie about how

all these men like in addition to

showing signs of

uh psychopathy or however you would

pronounce

psychopathy yeah um they're all

legitimate geniuses too like they all

have super high iqs

um and it shows i think all the dialogue

uh

is very smart um which is a testament to

bladdy's work but

um all these people are believably

genius level intelligence um

jason miller uh obviously lieutenant

reno

who we said was father karis uh the

young priest and the exorcist

and inexplicably comes back for exorcist

three as a different character

yeah so he plays three different

characters in our

in our official trilogy right um

uh ed flanders not ned flanders ed

flanders

uh is the fell character um

he is president truman in macarthur he's

dr westfall the father of tommy westfall

on saint elsewhere yeah who tommy

westfall is

uh i don't remember who tommy westfall

is but uh

jess tommy westfall is that ring a bell

no on stage elsewhere

so there's this this theory called the

tommy westfall universe

oh yes okay oh yes

the finale of st elsewhere uh indicates

that the entire series took place

in the imagination of tommy westfall um

who is uh ed flanders son on the show um

and because of crossovers that st

elsewhere has done

with other shows and those episodes

those shows have done us crossing over

so it's like the simpsons x-files cheers

like every like every show from there

was on wings

yeah yeah early to late 90s like 80s

through 90s every single show is somehow

connected

and is all taking place in tommy

westfall's imagination

um ed flanders is also in exorcist 3.

he replaces father dyer did you ever see

the movie buy by love

i didn't um it was basically

a mcdonald's commercial but it was much

better than mac and me um

it's uh i mean the critics disagree with

me

because i looked it up and it is not

well remembered but um

it's like paul ryser and randy quaid i

think

and somebody else and they're like these

divorce dads oh i liked this movie

i remember this it's very cute um people

didn't like that movie

i don't think so i think it was kind of

cheesy and it was like 100 paid for by

mcdonald's which this movie's paid for

by pepsi who cares who paid for them who

cares i mean

they paid for it because it was

realistic that divorced dads would meet

in a mcdonald's

yeah to come see their kids because it's

somewhere easy to get food for kids that

they'll actually eat the food

yes but um but one of the plots of the

movie is uh

that one of the one of the daughters of

the men uh has a boyfriend that works at

this mcdonald's

and uh the boyfriend there's like some

kind of a car accident scene at the end

of the movie

um and the boyfriend is getting blamed

for it and like the police are

interrogating him and saying that he did

something wrong

and a co-worker of the boyfriend steps

up and it's

this 65-70 year old man that's ed

flanders

oh that's the brother yeah and he stands

up and he's like this is my boss

yeah and he's a teenager but he's very

responsible and like stands up for him

and it's like this really great touching

scene at the end of the movie

and i always remember that scene it

turns out that's the same guy that plays

kane's brother here

um so i just thought it was worth

mentioning just because i really like

that scene

um you have neville brand as marvin

groper major marvin groper

who will come back in without warning uh

later this year

without warning we won't even see it

coming

in 1950 he was in a film noir directed

by otto premanger called

where the sidewalk ends which i didn't

realize was a movie before

it was where it was a children's

silverstein poetry collection

it precedes the poetry book by 24 years

he also plays uh boyd kane in kansas

city confidential was a really cool

gangster movie

um what year was that one um 52. i was

going to say 50s

and uh he's also lieutenant kaminsky in

torah torah torah

yeah i noticed that he was also in stock

17 as duke and i

can't remember who the character of duke

is and i can't picture who

he is in that movie because i'm pretty

familiar with the movie

uh but uh yeah i got nothing for him on

in that

uh george disenzo is captain fairbanks

who is the one who is trying to

bust open the wall to get through it um

oh there is a scene that we skipped over

from him he's floating in a pool and

he's complimenting the atoms of the pool

that they're more cooperative i loved

that it was just such a funny callback

like yeah because

water molecules are cooperative yeah he

was so mad at the wall before

but he approves of the pool but he plays

sam baines in back to the future i don't

know who sam baines is

uh that is lorraine's father oh so he's

like you ever have a kid that's stupid

all this sonia

yeah yeah he's like what are you talking

about this is a brand new episode uh

major benchley in close encounters uh i

mean there was a lot of

military and close encounters so i can't

so he yeah he could have been there's

like 300 people standing around

but i'm wondering if that's a call back

to jaws peter benchley yeah i was going

to say

benchley is not a coincidence i don't

think um he's also an exorcist three

moses gunn uh was major namek who is a

bumpy

jonas and shaft uh he's dr pincho and

firestarter

yeah um and he is

chiron in neverending story i don't know

who that is

yeah so he's like he's a soldier at the

no

he he is basically the prime minister of

fantasia

oh uh so but he's on the roof of that

building right he's the one who's coming

out and saying the the the empress

is ill okay oh yes

yes i recall that guy um robert loja as

lieutenant banish is obviously

amazing um rubber luge yeah i always go

back to that

r for roberto

oh is that robert lotion i think his

most famous role

was in a minute made commercial where

there's a little kid that doesn't want

to drink the juice

and she's like why don't you want to

drink the juice it's made from real

fruits or something like that

who would you trust who would you trust

to tell you to drink this juice and he's

like i don't know

maybe robert lozia and then robert loja

comes in he's like hey kid drink your

juice that's good for you

the kid's just like robert lozia like so

excited to see robert lotion uh he also

has another great family guy thing where

it just cuts to him with a black

background pointing at the camera going

not okay

no it would be in context but after like

a bad joke yeah

like one of them is mayor west he's

dating this girl he goes

i think i should tell you i have aids

and she goes what

it's like they're over there they're

waiting to take us back home he's like

hi sir we're waiting for you over here

he's like poor guys

they both have aids

and then it is not okay

yeah he uh obviously people probably

actually know him from

big where he was the boss at the toy

company

um scarface independence day yeah i

always go to scarface first just because

him as frank in that movie is amazing

but i get him and jack warden

confused that's fair uh i can see that

whenever i'm trying to picture robert

loggia in a role i always

somehow end up on a jack warden and they

both do

comedy like full-heartedly like they're

just like i'm

committing 100 to this character and

whatever you tell me to do we'll we'll

get it done yeah

um but uh he's also uh

jason cutler in over the top um he's dr

bill raymond and psycho

ii did you say you get him confused with

jack warden

because i was like you know who i get

him confused with and i was just looking

it up i'm like that guy from

toys oh that's jack warden yeah

yeah they're very similar and they get

similar roles too

but i met him uh he came and did a guest

appearance on tom goes to the mayor

and uh i was standing in the parking lot

waiting for him to park and to lead him

into our offices

and he stopped me on the way into the

building and he pointed at the

the ashtray outside the door he's like

you see those cigarettes

i was like yeah and he's like tombstones

i was like all right yeah i don't smoke

but and he's like

where are we going i took him upstairs

into the offices but he's a funny guy i

think they dressed them up in like a

like a gorton's fisherman uh i know what

you did last summer

like yellow jacket and had him like i

think

i could be mixing it up with a different

character but i think he was like

a guy who ran like a local like fish

restaurant he was just shouting at the

camera but

he's always hilarious i i always loved

loved that story

every time you tell him i think i

mentioned it on the macgyver podcast

and i'll repeat it every time we have

robert loja in a movie um

and then obviously tom atkins is

sergeant krebs uh who we had in fog

and he will be back next year for escape

from new york with john carpenter

um jess up or down oh it's a big thumbs

up

yeah yeah that's gonna be an up from me

all right and that's three obviously i

spoiled that at the beginning

um where is this going on your

letterboxed uh so

top of my list this one's uh this one's

number one i want richard to say the

same thing

he wasted all that time trying to find

the list

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i really don't want to say it's my

number one maybe next time we should

have richard go first

so it doesn't look like i'm just you're

just like pointing a gun

can i just say you like richard can i

just say how ecstatic i am that you

spent all of that time trying to find

your list

so that you could tell me it was on top

not that it was like in the middle

or something like you didn't decide

earlier today i i

i haven't decided i'm i'm deciding

literally at this moment

where is it going

it's going at the top of course it's

going at the top it's going at the top

it's at the top of all three of our

lists

we finally have the same movie on the

top because this movie is phenomenal

it's pretty great and everybody should

go buy it right now this is this was the

first like

i had never i had never heard of this

movie yeah never it's incredible

never heard of it not even didn't sound

familiar whatsoever

and it did not let me down but i think

that is show it to people

uh yeah absolutely like i i want to show

this movie to people yeah

we're sharing it right now with the

listeners

the whole world is listening we're that

big already

um i think that is everything for this

movie uh if you have any thoughts you'd

like to share with us we are

vintagevideopod on twitter facebook

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where as i've said before you can find

each of our full movie rankings for the

year

we can also be found at

vintagevideopodcast.com

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vintagevideopodcast thank you so much

for listening and i hope you'll join us

next time

when we'll be discussing coal miner's

daughter which imdb

calls the biographical story of loretta

lynn a legendary country singer

that came from poverty to worldwide fame

[Music]

you