we're on a mission from god

wendy so i got that going darling

i picked the wrong way to quit sniffing

blue light of my life

[Music]

welcome to vintage video where we're

re-watching the 80s so you don't have to

we'll be reviewing every major film

release of the 1980s in real time

over analyzing what you've seen and

spoiling what you haven't i'm patrick

o'reilly i'm jesse bayless and i'm

richard wells and today marks the 40th

anniversary of the release of the final

countdown

on august 1 1980 it was written by

thomas hunter

peter powell david ambrose and jerry

davis based on a story by everybody but

davis

directed by dawn taylor and released by

united artists

and has nothing to do with that song

correct uh the imdb trivia does say that

the

band europe was inspired by this movie

to write that song but i couldn't

corroborate that anywhere else

and the song is about space travel and

it's very david bowie-esque

and i don't believe it

i don't believe that it has anything to

do with this producer peter douglas

son of kirk was the driving force behind

getting this film made

money was saved by producing it with the

full cooperation of the us navy

on board the uss nimitz the first time

they set up to record a jet taking off

either the crewmen played a prank on

them or someone seriously underestimated

the force of a jet blast

because the camera and operator were

blasted down the runway of the ship

that just sounds dangerous yeah yeah the

film went remarkably over budget

after the production offered to

reimburse 4 125

per hour of flight time and the 32.5

hour budget

quickly expanded to 200 hours oh my god

it was later used as a recruitment tool

by the navy 48 crew members of the

nimitz are featured in the cast

some even have lines producer and kirk

child

peter douglas also plays a part in the

film as does associate producer

lloyd kaufman founder of troma

entertainment

it was this film that officially put

kauffman off ever working with the

studio system again

michael douglas had wanted to audition

for the martin sheen role but was stuck

on the press tour for china syndrome

when that film had gone over schedule

and this will forever cement

my problem telling the difference

between martin sheen

and michael douglas yes but also we

gotta get we got another china syndrome

reference in there thank you

yeah also it's uh fun to point out that

charlie

sheen and michael douglas the sons of

these two actors would appear together

in the wall street films

it's true say that again

kirk's son michael and martin's son

charlie

yes are both in wall street okay yeah

i i can confirm that i actually haven't

seen that movie

at the beginning of the film mr tidman's

car arrives at the gate to

the naval base in pearl harbor at the

same time mr lasky is dropped off by a

different car

and preps to board a helicopter when he

notices tideman's vehicle

and moves to speak with him before

getting due to chapa

he is greeted by mr tywin's executive

assistants who inform him that tydeman

is just here to see him off no

introduction necessary

it isn't necessary mr lasky as i said

he came to see you off but lasky is

completely okay with it

yeah like he he he understands that this

is just how this guy operates

i would assume that he's like some crazy

germaphobe or something and just be like

okay i guess i'll just wait from here

then

hopefully that's cool so i presume we're

trying not to spoil the end of the movie

before the end of the movie

well we've already mentioned in our

previous episode that this involves time

travel

and you did guess here yeah immediately

that that would be old mark machine in

the car

that that was my initial guess yes yeah

um

i wish that it was a spoiler alert but i

wish that it was

because i would be curious to see how

closely they got the makeup

but that's not that's not who's in this

car lasky takes the chopper over the

arizona memorial to the deck of the uss

nimitz

the actual ship utilized by the crew

playing itself

it was docked for all the interior

filming and out to sea for the brief

above deck footage

a narrator voice at the arizona memorial

describes the fate of the ship and the

attack on pearl harbor

they also spot a russian trawler

presumably fishing for red herrings

upon landing lasky is escorted to the

bridge

the first thing you notice watching this

film is that these are all real jets

and all the flight photography is done

practically with cameras on board all

the jets

it lends the film a lot of production

value we see commander owens land a jet

on the deck and we learn through

conversation that

lasky is an efficiency expert with the

defense department

sent a board to iron out any

redundancies that he can help identify

as owens comes inside the ship he

comments to his co-pilot on the rapidly

worsening weather

i almost now wonder knowing the end of

the movie is

if time and hand selected him that is

this yeah we need to make sure i need to

make sure that this guy is on this ship

i don't know why but we'll we'll come to

that yeah

there's so much i want to talk about at

the end yeah

uh in the bridge lasky and captain

yellend are introduced

yellen gripes about his ship being tied

up for two days awaiting lasky's arrival

on orders from mr tideman based on what

we'll learn over the course of the film

there's no excuse for lasky not being

exactly on time

yellen's second in command reminds him

that tideman designed and built this

ship

well hold on i think there is sort of an

excuse for him

delaying the ship because i think it

needs to be in the right place at the

right time which is december we'll get

to this at the end

i disagree fine yellen's second in

command

reminds him that tiedman designed and

built this ship and that the least they

could do was oblige his request to wait

a couple days

as the last few jets return to the ship

lightning is flashing all around despite

sunny weather reports they are getting

strange readings on their instruments

alternating back and forth between the

storm

that we see and a perfectly clear sky

lasky is shown to his room which is

spacious for a ship

and neighbors that of commander owens

whose quarters lasky rudely barges into

and starts going through his [ __ ] yeah

he's like fascinated by this collection

of photographs and paperwork relating to

the attacks on pearl harbor

that just litter owen's desk but he just

[ __ ] sits down

at the desk and starts reading a

manuscript that owens was working on

of course owens catches him and lasky

doesn't really apologize as much as he

just

says oh forgive me and instead of

expressing any regret or remorse

he tells owens what a great manuscript

he's written and then tells him who he

is and why he's a board

owens is part of the carrier air group

and as such his helmet reads

kag and he is referred to as such on the

bridge

so when he enters someone on the bridge

says boss

kag's here most gags here but it sounds

exactly like

bos skags here

[Laughter]

a meteorologist marches into the bridge

and despite his name tag saying john

arthur or something like that he's being

referred to as black cloud by everyone

because of his native american descent

yellen blames him for the weather

ah black cloud you've been doing

unauthorized rain dances again huh

as black cloud describes the alternating

nature of the readings we see a portal

open up at sea level ahead of the ship

the visual effects for this film

were saved for last and as a result of

having gone so far over budget needed to

be finished on the cheap

maurice binder or binder was brought in

and basically worked by compositing

colored conical lasers in smoke over the

footage of

the ship at sea or in some cases a clear

miniature of the ship

and that's basically all there is to

this effect

yeah looks pretty cheap it looks pretty

cheap for someone who's like a master

of the of the uh visual effect yeah uh

maurice bender if you're not familiar is

the guy who does all the

opening title sequences for the james

bond movies or did up to a point

yeah yeah but those aren't like those

aren't supposed to be realistic looking

effects like

right but they don't look cheap they

don't look like toy models all over

no but they're they're graphical in

nature in terms of

how he's compositing and overlaying all

of his shots they

aren't i wouldn't call those visual

effects i call that compositing well

they called it visual effects here

well this was supposed to be a visual

effect but it's just lasers but it's

compositing

lasers the last jet returning to deck is

getting an unsafe hook indicator

meaning that they'll have to rig a

barricade in place of the usual cable

the men assemble it very quickly in the

worsening storm and clear the deck

but before the last jet can even touch

down the uss nimitz is swallowed whole

by this glowing portal effect

and everyone on the ship collapses to

their knees in pain at its loud ringing

glasses shattering instrument panels are

erupting in sparks

kirk is going ape [ __ ] on the bridge

but then it's suddenly over a clear day

and everyone just recovers immediately

the last jet presumably having also

passed through the portal appears

and touches down on the deck and is

wrapped safely in the barricade but the

pilot is unconscious when they get yeah

i was like who landed this plane i say

is he dead

because owens looks over his body and is

like very distraught

yeah and they take the body away but

he's still like looking deadpan at the

ground

and we never look at we never see this

guy again for the rest of the movie we

don't even mention him

i don't know if he's unconscious because

he pulled so many g's stopping

or if it's from the effects of the

portal yeah

so i watched this with my father and uh

when this whole sequence was going on

the portal sequence he's like

that's what we could have done without

this that'd be great if this was just

about them going

out to sea for a couple days and came

back there was no portal or time travel

involved

no i think i think it was more so just

like this effect and everything like

like star trek style like yeah i'm being

affected by some kind of beam is this

good

director a crew member calls up to the

bridge from the radio room

to announce that they're having

communications issues they can't send or

receive signals except for

some old obsolete radio frequencies the

crew member announcing the problem is

associate producer lloyd kaufman

yellen checks with the radar crew and

the map is blank even the russian

trawler is gone

yellen orders owens to have a crusader

do a photo run

over pearl harbor unclear why he would

request this unless he had a sneaking

suspicion that they were suddenly

transported back in time almost 40 years

well

they he he has the suspicion that there

was an attack

yeah and i think he maybe he thinks that

the

the portal travel noise light thing was

some kind of result of a like a

radiation from like you have some kind

of new

atomic bomb or maybe even uh like a

golden eye type atmospheric

detonation we're getting occasional

hints that the crew is getting restless

in the absence of

a solid explanation for these

disturbances yellen speaks to all the

senior officers and admits that he has

no idea what's going on

but he won't rule out the possibility of

war and specifically a nuclear attack

that would explain why their

communications are going unrecognized

it's weird to think that 1980 to 1941 is

less of a time

jump than from now to when this movie

premiered

they put on the radio during this

meeting and they're picking up old jack

benny episodes

in response to the mission they set

about arming all the jets

never clearly explaining to the crew why

they're loading all these jets with

with armaments a few jets take off

on a recon mission and we cut to senator

chapman

pouring drinks on the back of his yacht

the gatsby

they are listening to a radio address

from president fdr

and chapman is upset that fdr is asking

america to trust our enemies because

he doesn't trust japan and he thinks

they're going to attack and he's been

asking for

troops to back him up in in the pearl

harbor region because he thinks that's

that would be a point of attack his

more than secretary but less than lover

laurel arrives with the part of a speech

that will propose chapman be awarded

a place in roosevelt's cabinet with a

long-term plan

of a shot at the vp nomination for fdr's

next and as we know

last term as president chapman follows

her back into the yacht

alone to congratulate her on a great

speech and she asks if he told the other

man on board

that they were sleeping together at

first this makes it sound like they are

until he answers weirdly i wish i was

which is like

okay that's too forward that's strange

also you're married

yeah which i think is just a ham-fisted

way of letting us know they are not

in fact sleeping together suddenly

laurel's dog charlie starts barking

just before two jets scream overhead

inappropriately low over the yacht

despite their speed chapman is somehow

able to identify u.s markings

but not the model of the jet we get a

quick

mid-air refueling sequence i think just

because they got footage of it

yeah i think a lot of this was what can

we

show yeah like what what can you guys do

for us

navy it's like we can refuel mid-air

okay let's do that

we can we can land a plane in the nets

on the thing

that's a really expensive thing to do

and apparently

and again i couldn't corroborate this

elsewhere but

that was not planned they were actually

having difficulties with the tow cable

and they were like we're going to have

this guy come in and hit a barricade do

you want to get some footage

and then they wrote dialogue around it

so that they could show it in the movie

makes sense

but this is just that makes sense but

like the refueling thing to me

it was completely unnecessary and if

you're over budget

let's just cut some of these shots they

were they were over budget after all the

aerial photography

oh okay i wouldn't have started with

that yeah

it looks great though it does everything

looks amazing it looks really nice

yeah yeah for sure i mean i was i was

totally into the movie because this

looked so incredibly authentic and and

i loved i mean aside from the time

portal because

everybody knows time portals don't look

like that yeah

everything well now we do in 1980 they

didn't know what time portals looked

like yeah now we know that they open up

in a perfect square around

a phone booth yeah and the phone booth

just goes into it

yeah they learned that in the early 90s

um

but uh yeah i feel like if you gave me

all the ingredients to this movie and

you said

we have two options we could make a

documentary about the uss nimitz

and we could have kirk douglas narrate

it

and martin sheen give like a tour or

we could make a time travel movie i also

would have chosen poorly

and made a shitty time travel movie but

what they should have done is just made

a documentary about how

this no no honestly i was totally

100 in with the premise of this movie

and

how it was going and how it was being

shot

they just about mid movie gave up

they took a wrong turn there were so

many cool options it's a time travel

movie you have so many cool options

and they took the least interesting path

yeah

they took the path less traveled by and

that has made all the difference

they took the path of least budget yeah

but

while going ridiculously over yeah

a crew member from the bridge heads

below deck to speak with some of the men

outside the inner circle about how

worried they seem on the bridge

the man bears a striking resemblance to

kirk douglas and his shirt identifies

him as douglas

and he is played by producer and kirk

kid peter douglas

he tries to convince fellow crewmen that

we are officially at war

but it's not official until it's

declared i think

yellen shows lasky the picture that the

crusader took of pearl harbor

and lasky tells him to get owens to

bring some photos from his room to

compare

i'm guessing that this crusader had a 40

year old camera on board

yeah because it's this grainy shitty

black and white picture of pearl harbor

from above and it's like

what why isn't this in color why doesn't

this look nicer

but not only is it the same quality of

the picture that owens brings up

it's literally the same photograph yeah

meaning it was taken from the same angle

somehow in 1940

well i or 41. it was my assumption that

this

photograph somehow was still in the

possession

that is exactly what i thought of a

character that this becomes that

photograph

that is in his so they just had an old

camera on that

jet and he smuggled that photo off the

ship

but just that photo yes

okay interesting that's the only way to

explain it

yeah because they make such a point of

saying it's the same photograph yeah

it's weird that historians weren't like

that's weird what would have taken this

picture from this angle that day

like we didn't have any planes in the

air that's strange

but yeah so that happened the recon jets

radio back that they've spotted two

japanese zeroes

in pristine condition somehow the

japanese planes have not seen them

but i'm pretty sure that these jets

can't even fly slow enough not to just

blow past the japanese planes i

asked my father the same question not

that he is a

expert but he was in the navy um he says

that these planes do have to land

on runways and you know they can't they

can't land going

500 miles an hour and he said when the

wings are in that configuration the

tomcats especially when they're in

the wider configuration that's when

they're flying slower

okay and when they're swept back is when

they're flying much faster

okay yellend lasky owens and thurman

who is yellen's second in command on the

bridge all debate who could possibly be

staging this reenactment

and lasky is the first to just accept

that they've traveled back in time 40

years

even though nothing besides the storm so

far has been entirely inexplicable

and he says but all of us know that

movement through time is possible

einstein proof

i'm not sure that ever did happen i mean

yes moving through time

is possible we are forward we are doing

it right now

yeah uh even if he did suggested he

definitely never proved it i feel like

that would be a bigger headline if it

was like einstein proves time travel

possible

oh great that's wonderful if he did

prove it then we should go ask him if he

ever proved it

back on the senator's yacht they hear a

new set of incoming planes but chapman

can hear the difference

this is the two japanese zeroes passing

low over the yacht

and then they come back to strafing in

the water killing everyone aboard except

for chapman

laurel her dog and a fourth guy bobby

who doesn't know how to swim and as a

result can't take off his life jacket to

dive when they

circle back and start firing on them

again a couple jets from the nimitz

scare off the zeros so that they'll stop

shooting at the senator in the water

but they're not allowed to fight they're

they're not allowed to fire on these

planes they're just allowed to engage i

guess yeah

they do a lot of fancy flying here one

of the tricks

involves a jet sweeping up in front of

one of the zeros

which on set nearly caused this plane to

crash well yeah because those jets put

out a lot of

wake turbulence and when you see those

two zeroes kind of go whoa we're like

they're

waving all around i mean i'm sure that

that's yeah one one of those planes

almost crashed because of that stunt

and then the other crazy stunt here was

probably because the pilot was excited

by cameras and

did a full dive to just about a hundred

feet above the water before yanking it

back up into the sky

that i was also very surprised it looks

and was extremely dangerous the zeros

start firing on the jets and yellen

finally gives them permission to splash

the zeros

but it looks like one crashes without

anything from the jets like

it just starts smoking and collapses

well um you can hear that the engine of

the

one of the zeros is revving up higher

and higher because i think he's trying

to

evade or speed up to outrun

this plane and i think he just burns out

his engine

trying to outrun it but the other one

they literally shoot out of the sky

yeah a helicopter was sent out to

collect the civilian and enemy survivors

in the water

as they're unloading the japanese

survivor onto the deck unless i misheard

him

yellen calls the pilot a bastard yeah

that is correct

which as far as i know has never been a

term for japanese people

a lot of the bridge crew try to talk to

yelland about

because here's the thing too it's a

korean actor

yeah and i was like

yeah that's really uncomfortable um i

just don't know like

why they even had to have that line in

there just cut that one line if there's

something about the 80s where you

had to imply that all the old men were

just terrible racists for no reason i

mean because

i guess you could argue that he made

that racist joke about

black cloud yeah but you also like maybe

there's like a certain

you know this movie is for people that

that approve of the military

and so there has to be these little

lines like for those people in the

audience go yeah

yeah like that was definitely like a a

moment that you had to be in theater

to appreciate properly a lot of people

on the bridge crew try to talk to

yellend

about attacking the japanese fleet but

as he points out the japanese haven't

attacked the mainland yet

so there's not a war yet they would be

starting a war with japan if he did that

but he does admit that it's the navy's

job to defend america

and then from there to take orders from

the commander-in-chief

who lasky reminds him is now franklin

delano roosevelt and he looks very

displeased

[Laughter]

an interpreter sits with the japanese

pilot and senator chapman

is the co-chairman of the senate defense

committee and demands to see the captain

at once

as much as it feels like he isn't the

authority because he's from the 40s and

he doesn't know what's going on he is

the official authority here in this time

period yeah he is the senator

he like a senator is it's a high-ranking

position

yeah and the military serves but they're

treating him like oh he doesn't know

what he's talking about

yeah he doesn't understand our ship and

it's like that doesn't matter though

he's a senator he's a state senator well

and not just a state senator but head of

the defense committee

yeah back in his cabin lasky feels like

intruding on owen's quarters again

and just wanders in and grabs a handful

of papers off his desk

owens realizes quickly that they're

missing and finds lasky reading a

passage

written by owens out loud and it tells

the story of senator chapman's

historical disappearance

likely at the hands of these japanese

scouting planes

and explains that had he survived he

would likely have gone on to be fdr's

vice president

for his last term inheriting the

presidency upon roosevelt's death

this senator is not based on a real

person correct it's fictional made up

for the movie

lasky acts like this is a big gotcha

that owens has heard of chapman but i

don't feel like it is

it means nothing yeah lasky is

led to speak with chapman but as they're

opening the door the dog gets out of the

room and distracts everyone

while the japanese prisoner who isn't

restrained in any way

grabs an automatic weapon from a nearby

sailor

and kills two of the crewmen right there

the pow starts to make demands in

japanese

and so they move to get the translator

on the phone as quickly as they can

i don't know why the translator wasn't

just there the whole time as long as you

have the prisoner in custody

keep the translator near him yeah after

some disagreements

the pow gets his hands on a gun and

holds it to laurel's head

demanding to speak with his fleet lasky

suggests

just telling the soldier the truth about

what's going on owens

being the expert on the history of the

attack on pearl harbor is able to recite

from memory the names of all the fleets

that japan sent to america he knows all

their code words he knows everything

and the pow is completely dumbfounded by

this another crew member takes this

opportunity to shoot at the japanese

soldier

who returns fire and kills a third

crewman before just getting shot to

pieces on the floor

chapman is finally brought to the

captain and asks if he's informed pearl

harbor command

he says no i haven't and he's like well

why the hell not chapman is granted

access to the radio room

to call himself but the non-existent uss

nimitz and captain yelland

caused them to laugh off the warning and

recommend that they not try to prank the

us military because it's a felony

so i feel like obviously his approach of

having the guy who has

no idea what's going on be the one to

call and try to warn them

obviously it wasn't gonna work but why

did he not

just try to relay

the danger in some other way

across the radio like even if you didn't

identify yourself as

a ship that doesn't exist or a crew that

doesn't exist

just say hey there is a bunch of ships

in these coordinates

and leave it at that and then they would

just be like well this could be

a trick or it could be a scam or it

could be real let's just go send some

scouts out

and find out yeah like he could even

have said

this is senator chapman my pleasure

craft which is was just attacked by two

jobs yeah which is registered honolulu

it says it on the boat

yeah i'm sure they would know i'm sure

the military knows

that a senator is in the area yeah

um he could say we just saw two japanese

zeroes

get you know you didn't have to say you

said they got shot down or they shot at

them he could say they blew up my yacht

which they did and i'm borrowing a radio

yeah go check this out

we saw we saw a crew at x-coordinates

you know coming this way from japan

that's literally the reason the plane

circled back and blew up the yacht was

because he saw the planes and would

radio back to right

pearl harbor but uh chapman asks what

lasky is doing here

and for the first time i'm wondering the

same thing plot-wise

his character has not been super

necessary thus far and will not become

more necessary

as we move forward i wonder if he was

just added

for a potential michael douglas role and

then when

that suddenly fell apart martin sheen

just got thrown in at the last second

because people couldn't tell the

difference between the two of them he

introduces himself as an employee of the

department of defen uh

navy department because at the time what

is now the defense department was

separated into the war department and

navy department

they spent because they didn't have a

defense department it was the department

of war

and then the navy was added on to it

later and so there was the department of

navy and then they were like

well these are both kind of war let's

call it the department of defense yeah i

was just saying like

i don't understand the distinction

between the navy

and war well the navy was not as much

the offensive at the time it was a

defensive okay

so they were basically stripping out

offense and defense

right then they realized okay then they

were like let's just pretend

everything's defense

yeah the best defense is a good navy the

best

uh offense is one that we pretend is

only defense

yeah and i don't believe that there was

even an air force it was the army air

corps

yeah and the navy had planes but there

was no air force official

and now the air force is called the

department of health and human services

no that's not true then we have space

force space force space force

from navarone what what

space force 10 yeah there you go you got

it

they spend so much time trying to

needlessly confuse the senator that he

gets very paranoid around them

owens goes in and flirts with laurel a

lot in the isolation room

she describes her work for the senator

and he complements her abilities

and gives her credit for what she's

accomplished in a time when women were

even more sidelined by society than they

were in the 80s

the senator demands that yellen fly him

and laurel to pearl harbor

and yellen agrees with this request

lasky warns him of the ramifications and

yellen says he doesn't need a couple of

angry civilians on board

when he's about to do battle and lasky

reminds him that he has three civilians

on board

and yellen says fine you can go with him

and yell and tells owen to drop them off

on some deserted island

nearby with supplies somewhere they

can't screw things up for a few days

they can take the professor and mary

anne yeah

lasky tells owens that he's going to

take up yellen's offer

and head to pearl harbor but intuits

somehow that owens will not be taking

them there and changes his mind

the captain addresses the ship and says

don't worry it's not a war your families

are safe we just went back in time 40

years

and everyone's like well that's a relief

when in reality they would assume this

is a weird military exercise

and for sure would not be pulling the

trigger on any planes that they saw

right

all the planes are loaded up with their

maximum firepower capacity

owens heads out with the chopper but the

fatal flaw in this plan is that the

senator

is not an idiot and if you tell the

difference between pearl harbor and a

deserted island

as they're being dumped on the island

chapman steals what i thought was a

flare gun but it turns out it's actually

a suicide

bomb gun yeah and knocks another soldier

unconscious

he demands that they take the chopper to

pearl harbor after they've already

dropped off laurel on this island

and owens is down there with her so he's

hijacked this

helicopter and as it's pulling away

owens realizes what's going on and he's

getting left

and he tries to jump into it but he's

just hanging from this helicopter for a

while before he falls into the ocean

it's like when time ran out

yeah it's pretty terrifying but that

person apparently died

somehow yeah the unconscious man

comes to and attacks chapman from behind

setting off the

suicide bomb gun and obliterating the

chopper

it's just supposed to be a flare gun but

for some reason the second it goes off

the entire helicopter

is a fireball which seems super

dangerous if you're

yeah if you can take down an entire

military helicopter with a flare gun

and i really don't think senator chapman

would go through with his threat

if you don't take me to plural harbor

i'm gonna kill us all no i think i think

that

it got fired on accident no no no but he

uh the pilot says if you fire that in

here you'll kill us all i was like well

then you better take me there

yeah it's like no you're not gonna do

that i would just

turn off the helicopter yeah like just

turn it off

and then you fly it yeah we're gonna

float right here in the sky

until you put that gun away that's how

helicopters work right

well they were still on the ground when

he holds the gun on him oh that's true

yeah

unless you know how to fly this thing

yeah because he doesn't even know what

it is

yeah he doesn't know what a helicopter

is because helicopters don't exist yet

the people at the is that true did

helicopters not exist i don't think they

existed

hold on i think that is a good global

fact hold on

or am i thinking of gyrocopters

gyrocopters did exist

1939 world's

first practical helicopter

i want to know when the first

impractical helicopter went

are you googling that

okay um but google did understand when i

started to write

world war ii helicopters and it gave me

a list of helicopters from world war ii

but nowhere near what this one was

probably no no not at all

they won't look more like the magnum

helicopter where it's just a bubble

it looks like a pile of sticks with

rotors on it yeah

it's like the mash helicopters yeah yeah

but helicopters like this

certainly did not exist yeah which is

why the whole time that they're in

isolation on

the nimitz he's like what the hell was

that thing that picked us up out of the

water

like how did that work but in the radar

room someone's pointing out

hey so the chopper with with all our

guys on it that's gone

that disappeared and yellen's like ah

well we don't have time to look into it

we have to win

the battle of pearl harbor now so he

loads up all the jets

and they send him out to attack the

japanese fleet

back on the island laurel's already

starving and cracks open in mre

and notices that it was inspected in

july of 1979

she turns to owens for an explanation

just as a swarm of japanese planes fly

overhead

the radar room sees that the time storm

is striking again

and yellen instructs the crew to evade

the storm

but it's no use it's following them and

moving faster than the ship can move

so he calls all the jets back this is

like some quantum leap stuff

yeah like it's just like you can't fight

this fate of time travel

yeah it's weird but uh they're within

sight of these japanese

ships that they were going to attack but

the pilots all agreed to abort this

mission and lose the battle of pearl

harbor again

i feel like at least one of these guys

would have been like nope

i i've never got to meet my grandpa i'm

gonna go save his life right now

but and that plane just just vanishes

from there i was like

oh what i guess uh i'm gonna turn around

why did the whole plane disappear why

wasn't it just a different guy in there

[Music]

that's strange um

[Laughter]

it turns out his grandfather was like he

did

he paid for that one helicopter he's

like you're gonna put my son on your

ship

if i have to buy the goddamn chopper

he's flying or jet

i just want to see like all of them are

just flying or just falling out of the

air all of a sudden

because his grandfather sued the guy who

tried to invent the jet

and he's like no i'm patenting it you

can't pet and don't exist now

we get some black and white footage from

torah torah torah as well as just stock

footage from the actual pearl harbor

attack

and the ship is shaken again by the

stock footage

some of it is maybe news footage perhaps

it seems weird to say call it stock

footage of an attack

you know what we're getting attacked and

murdered uh we should get some footage

of this

[Laughter]

yeah that's what they called it on imdb

so i'm calling it stock footage

he just like puts like some weird music

over it's like if you want you can get

footage of american soldiers exploding

the ship is shaken again by the piercing

shrieks of the time storm

and on the other side the jets appear

missing again

after a moment the music swells as all

the jets reappear and land safely on the

ship

after they've docked yellend is

reprimanded for getting lost at sea in

an aircraft carrier

lasky has taken custody of charlie the

dog now

and moves to collect owen's manuscript

from the ship before just

changing his mind and putting it back

and leaving the ship empty-handed

lasky disembarks as mr tideman pulls up

and charlie jumps into the car before

laski can get to it oh well there's a

scene before this

oh okay sorry uh where lasky and the

captain

part ways and it's like wait a minute

the captain's meeting is done already

where like sev at least seven people are

dead

yeah and they have a corpse of a

japanese

soldier in their

and there's a helicopter missing a

helicopter i want to i want to hear the

corner be like time of death

40 years ago it's like how did you

determine that

uh there was like there's going to be

some kind of inquiry

there's lots of life like for sure they

dump that guy overboard though right

i don't think so i mean by time laws

they should have

lost but yeah charlie jumps into this

car

when lasky gets down to the car and

looks inside he sees the elderly laurel

and commander owens

and they invite him into the car as

there is much to discuss yeah

i thought they were going to kill him

there is literally nothing to do with

here i have no idea what they have to

discuss there's nothing to talk about so

now we can get into some of the problems

this is the end of the film we end it

with

their car driving off the pier

into the ocean through the time we don't

actually see that happen

because this is not a michael douglas

movie specifically the game

this is a different person so owens

is a war profiteer because he made money

off of knowing the future and the state

of the economy how did he know the

future

because he lived through it he lived

through it and he's a world war ii

expert

i need to know when this loop starts the

implication is that this is a

closed loop that they didn't screw up

what was the first pass how did the

first pass start

the first pass was a japanese fleet was

approaching pearl harbor an aircraft

carrier appeared and then disappeared

i mean if it's a closed loop there is no

start and finish to it it is just a

closed loop it's a loop

but you you're it's the grandfather

paradox right where

if i go back and kill my grandfather

then i can't have existed

right but they don't interfere they

didn't change whatever whatever had

happened happened

so in in the original pearl harbor

attack

two japanese planes apparently got shot

out of the air after attacking a

senator's boat

okay and a aircraft carrier randomly

appears and disappears

right but the loop relies on

the on owens having been delayed

two days by himself correct

to even go into the portal in the first

place yes right so if

elderly owens didn't exist if the time

travel hadn't happened

then owens would have left two days

earlier would have missed the time

portal completely

that should have been the first pass he

should have left two days later and

missed the portal

but elderly owens wouldn't exist

if it's the first pass that's what i'm

saying if elderly owens didn't exist

there's no way they would have even gone

through the time but he does exist

but he only exists because he exists

yeah that doesn't make sense because

we're we're already in the loop

you're trying to start the loop find a

point in which this loop starts but it's

already

it's already started right but that it

the fact that the loop requires

other ingredients of the loop to exist

makes it impossible

you can have a loop that gets caused by

a branch happens

and then it causes a loop but there's no

way

to get from this line to that loop

because this line

goes past that loop without the

interference of the loop

no one would have been there when the

time portal appeared here's what should

have happened

don't say we left two days later than we

were supposed to

because there's no reason to say that

except for to make this time loop

impossible to reach

what is the purpose of saying he made us

wait two days

but in in your straight line that

doesn't depart

into a loop it could have been delayed

for

some other reason some other reason i

guess but why introduce that

complication

okay my problem is that you got my hopes

up

about a movie about an aircraft carrier

going back in time to stop pearl harbor

and they didn't do anything yeah they

couldn't do anything they literally

didn't do anything

they could have they just didn't but but

that's that's that's the law

of of time travel einstein proved it

no because had they done something it

would have changed everything no

had they done anything it would have

cost too much yeah but

harry turtledove does these amazing

alternate history books

that do these amazing stories where it's

like what if you know somebody dropped a

bunch of

like automatic weapons in the south

before the civil war

or what if aliens attacked in the middle

of world war ii and you

and you develop all these stories but

those movies like what if this crazy

thing happened but it didn't it didn't

happen but what if it did

but but this is like a star trek episode

where everything has to go back to

normal

at the end right but that has to happen

on a tv show

that's so much less interesting i i

loved it

i i'm perfectly fine with it no in a

movie you don't have to go back to

normal

the world can change yeah it can change

if

you're disobeying the laws of time

travel

which this you're you're assuming how

time travel works no official lost a

time traveler

a movie can establish time travel rules

and has to obey those rules well this

one didn't

because it introduces a loop that is

caused by nothing

but that's why the storm was chasing

them

how come it chases some of them and not

all of them we mean not all of them

owens is left behind why does it leave

owens behind because he

already was left behind why did we have

to have an aircraft carrier go back in

time at all

yeah why did why did design this

aircraft carry

to go back in time he designed this ship

himself he designed and manufactured

this ship himself

yeah but he

he didn't even exist yeah

he designed this ship before he existed

and then he was born

and then he got on the ship but he

traveled back in time to a time where he

was already born

but that we agreed to go visit himself

as a child

we agree well he can't probably if if he

touches himself he's going to get you

know

silver all clouded up together but

my point is this is not a man-made time

travel scenario

correct this is a naturally occurring

time travel yeah and and and because of

that

it it has to correct the the laws of

time travel have to correct themselves

if you're going to have a time travel

storm that sends people back to

december 6th of 1941

it has to be man-made it can't just be a

oh that's just where it spits them out

because that doesn't like that's too

significant of a place and time

for it to have just been like oh just by

coincidence it's the day before pearl

harbor a date which will live in infamy

yeah that's a coincidence yeah just a

weird coincidence it's a weird

coincidence no

it shouldn't have been a coincidence the

point should have been that

this ship was designed to travel back in

time i agree that should have been the

point but that wasn't the point

the point was that it's just a bizarre

coincidence and also

this could never have happened because

it required the person who we left

behind

to have been left behind over and over

in infinity correct

which is not possible right but it did

it happened

it didn't happen you watched it happen

this is not a documentary richard it did

not happen

it's happening in real time i i

like this movie less now that we've

discussed it

because it is a paradox that i agree it

is

it is a paradox but they could have

cleared it up by just not saying

the two days thing they could have just

been like oh okay

you're here we're ready to go and then

it's like that ship always hit the time

portal

that guy always got sent back in time

and then

he sent that guy because he really

wanted his dog back i don't know why he

sent

martin sheen but that's the other thing

martin sheen's character is pointless oh

i agree he does nothing

there's no reason it couldn't have just

been owens the whole time yeah i i think

the only reason he's there

is because they need for for the story

right is that they need someone who

doesn't follow orders

to counter manned or to speak up against

the captain

but it never serves a purpose no it

never it never serves a purpose and and

he no this isn't his field if they if

they brought a physicist

on board or a nuclear engineer yeah if

this was like ian malcolm

explaining how things work yeah exactly

but no he's he's an efficiency expert

he's not a chaotician the only thing the

reason he was there

is that he was hand selected by tideman

because tybin knew that he had to be

there

but he didn't yeah if he wasn't there if

he wasn't on the ship

everything would have happened exactly

as it did yeah story-wise i think it

would have been fine

except you would have had to have owens

make the revelations just be like

look all this stuff is too familiar to

me

as a science fiction writer in my spare

time like just make the manuscript be an

alternate history story that he's been

writing

and this is his chance to act it out but

then he shows some restraint

and he doesn't like move forward with

the attack on

the ships it's like if that's the way

you're going to do it but that

whether or not martin sheen gets sent

back in time has no bearing on the rest

of the story but they make it seem like

he's an integral part

of the time loop when he's not oh i

agree i wish that they had had kirk

douglas

sort of make a realization like like

like he had a moral

obligation to leave time the way it was

you know like that would have been the

star tricky thing right to give him

that moment to say like look or or it

would have been

our thanos moment when iron man is just

like look i can't lose my daughter

over this whole thing uh we need

the last 40 years to have happened just

the way it happened

so you know morally i can't change time

yeah but that's not what they did no

it's not what they screwed it up

they accidentally messed up the

possibility of their story ever having

taken place

but they spent so much money and it

looked so good and it had such a great

premise

and those visual effects were amazing

the visual effects weren't great

and there's i could have cut probably 37

minutes out of this

um because there's just a lot of footage

of playing and having to be a great war

scene like yeah and

there was a potential mutiny where the

sailors were getting upset about it and

then they just

dropped it and then like the one his xo

was like no we need to attack him we

need to attack those guys yeah this is

officially war now

yeah and uh and so it's like oh man

there's a lot of like

unlevel heads and it's like good news

guys it's not a war

we went back in time and they're like oh

okay

i guess let's go kill the japanese then

which they couldn't

because they didn't they could have they

chose not to

they chose you're denying them free will

they could have no i am completely i pat

you

you have gotten it i am completely

denying them free will

yes but you don't you're saying the time

travel works differently in this movie

than it does in back to the future

correct okay because in back to the

future we don't get any proof of that

no but in back to the future the time

travel rules are different because marty

should have

a completely different set of memories

when he arrives back into the later in

1985 of living a completely different

life without based on the rules of that

movie

correct not based on the rules of that

movie but in a real time travel story

he would have like frequency in

frequency

when he changes something in the past he

gets all the memories

and now he's got two sets of memories in

his head yeah

but in this movie nothing supernatural

prevents them from changing the timeline

correct this movie's stupid i don't like

it now

i was okay with it before i don't like

it now so is it down yeah

it's a down for me now yeah what is that

up like 30 minutes ago

where's it going on your list jess or up

or down

i'm still going to give it an um i mean

i really liked the first two-thirds of

this movie

i'm just really disappointed with how

they chose to end it because i think

they could have done

a dozen different things that would have

been more interesting than doing

nothing and and they made them they made

the whole movie pointless

and that makes me sad i don't think they

could have done anything to make it less

interesting

than the path that they chose yeah

that's what i'm saying i'm like

it could have been so it could have been

so great there could have been so many

different endings that they could have

chose and they chose the one

that was boring yeah it's like if you

said

let's make a movie what happens if you

send a super computer

back to 1950. but it's in a room where

nobody sees it

and then it just goes back to the

present

a couple hours later it's like well i

know what happens nothing

and that's what happened in this movie

nothing happened in this movie

yeah well i still give it up because i i

enjoyed

two-thirds of it i enjoyed the

the investigation is the best part like

when they're trying to figure out what's

happening

the whole thing out but you know

honestly that could have even been cut

down too in favor of like let's blow

some old planes up with some new planes

that would have been great i i feel like

even in the investigation stuff they

flub

because there's no part of what they're

doing that proves

that it's 1941. like that's what's so

frustrating it's like

everything they do they're just like

okay those could those ships still exist

they could have been there those planes

still exist well they took photos of

pearl harbor with the battleships all

still intact right you took a photo of

the wrong area

i i think it could have been an

interesting idea to have them

engage the japanese but

but lose well not not but not but lose

although that could have been

interesting too

like you said so many more interesting

options but

but where they try to prevent the

japanese attack

but instead have to help the japanese

with the attack

yeah i definitely feel like when he

brings back the pictures too and he's

like look here's the pictures that i

took and they'd be like that's weird

it's exactly the same as 1940s pictures

i wouldn't have been like that's weird i

would have been like oh

either you're bullshitting me or this

camera was rigged with

film that was like recreated from this

old photograph

right because obviously you didn't take

this picture 40 years ago with a 40 year

old camera

so anyway uh where does this go on your

list richard

i have this at number 28. this is just

below the earthling

and just above brubacher okay

jess yeah i'm still tweaking my list a

little bit

um i lowered it a little after a

conversation

i also i i have to say i also lowered it

yeah post conversation

so uh

it's 29th on my list it is just above

foxes and just below

coal miner's daughter okay i think it's

71st

on my list whoa so it's just under

nigensky and just above

roadie okay i'm i'm

you know what i'm i'm pleased with that

i'm pleased that it is

because it just it made me mad

discussing it like because i'm realizing

how badly they screwed up

and how the person who wrote this has no

business writing a time travel movie

our director was don taylor he directed

escape from the planet of the apes

omen 2 and the 1977 island of dr moreau

he was also one of the actors of

stalling 17 and i was very pleased to

see

i was like always yeah i was like oh you

played dunbar

oh you knew who he was this time yeah

and like the last two times you knew

somebody from stalling yeah yeah this is

this time this time i know because he's

the the central character who

was captured and then goes missing in

the camp

and the the germans want to know where

he where they've been hiding him

because they're trying to the the camp

is trying to smuggle him and escape him

out

i still have not gotten around to seeing

that one but i should the story slash

writing credit was for thomas hunter

before this he wrote the screenplay for

the human factor not the macgyver

episode

uh mostly acting credits he was in his

own script the human factor as well as

something called x-312 flight to hell

which sounded neat the another one of

the story and

screenplay writers was peter powell who

was a co-writer on the human factor not

the macgyver episode

and the third story slash writer credit

was for david ambrose

who also wrote survivor amityville 3d

under a pseudonym william wales

and d-a-r-y-l which i've never seen

daryl

yeah oh yeah i have a poster for that

of course you do and then the person who

was just a writer

and was not actually given a story

credit was jerry davis who was a story

editor on the doctor who series

and created the cyber men who have

appeared in many iterations of the show

all of which grant him story credits

kirk douglas was captain matthew yelland

he's spartacus van gogh 20 000 leagues

under the sea we had him earlier this

year for saturn 3

and home movies martin sheen was warren

lasky

he's in badlands apocalypse now uh

probably best known as the president on

the west wing

president bartlett during his time on

the west wing he was often introduced at

speaking engagements

as the acting president of the united

states which i always thought was funny

he is the father of actors charlie sheen

emilio

renee and ramon estevez katherine ross

was laurel scott she was miss robinson

not mrs miss robinson and the graduate

she was at a place in butch cassidy and

the sundance kid

she's joanna eberhardt and the stepford

wives dr

lillian thurman and donnie darko and

she's the wife of sam elliott

james ferentino was commander richard

owens

and mr tideman he was captain jensen and

bulletproof

which is a movie i like with uh damon

wayans and adam sandler

you ever see that um i uh is that

does that end at the coliseum la

coliseum

you know it's been a while since i saw

it i don't remember it's possible

he also played simon peter in jesus of

nazareth and sheriff dan gillis in dead

and buried

ron o'neill was commander dan thurman he

was the priest in superfly and superfly

tnt

he plays bella and red dawn and he plays

lieutenant

charlie garber in when a stranger calls

charles during with senator samuel

chapman

we had him earlier this year as arnold

arnold and i laughing

he'll show up in scarface as an

interrogator voice only

which is the same credit we mentioned

for dennis franz and our dressed to kill

review

moretti in dog day afternoon doc hopper

in the muppet movie

papi o'daniel and oh brother he also

played santa claus

in elmo saves christmas and he doesn't

play

lebowski no he's not david huddleston he

wasn't in gorp

uh victor mohica was black cloud he

played johnny fire cloud

in johnny fire cloud he played mono in

blood in blood out

and ventura and don't answer the phone

earlier this year

i don't remember who ventura was i'm

guessing one of the cops

soon tech oh was samura that's the peow

that they have on board

he's the voice of mulan's father fajao

he's also hip in man with the golden gun

he plays sensei and beverly hills ninja

or as i like to call it proto kung fu

panda

and he's the bad guy raymond ling in

macgyver episode murderer sky

with tia carrera harold bergman was a

bell man he plays a reverend

in cocoon and dr irwin in cocoon too

not clear if those are the same

character uh who knows

lloyd kaufman was lieutenant commander

lloyd kaufman

he co-founded troma entertainment at the

time of this recording kaufman has 25

acting credits ranging from announced to

post-production

so currently in the works he has 25

acting credits

and 364 total on his page wow

he's best known for the nukem high

movies the tromeo and juliet and toxic

avenger for

trauma peter douglas played the

quartermaster

he's the son of kirk he wrote and

directed a movie called tiger tale

which stars ann margaret from our

previous episode and charles durning

from this one

he also produced some great films like

fletch and some real clunkers like

fletch 2.

ted richard played tideman's assistant

he's roger england in eyes of a stranger

he plays raul the hotel manager in

piranha too

and he also plays a maitre d in porky's

too

richard liberty played lieutenant

commander moss

he plays logan and day of the dead he

plays mr howard

the man who moves into joey freeman's

house while he's missing

in flight of the navigator and he plays

commissioner couch

in porky's too he's also artie in the

crazies

and the last credit i have here was jack

mcdermott who plays win

he was a spectator in cocoon 2 and he

plays mr harper

in funhouse next year sorry can you go

back and explain uh

proto kung fu panda uh have you ever

seen the movie beverly hills ninja

i don't know

beverly hills ninja is about this

fat white guy named chris farley who

loves to eat

food and he is training to be

uh like samurai warrior and they find

some scroll that says that he's the

chosen one

and everyone's mad because he's this big

fat guy who

just wants to eat food all the time and

then he goes and saves the day

it's just it's exactly the plot of kung

fu panda but live kung fu panda okay

i think we had to watch that i have not

seen that it's good i like it

i mean i like almost every chris farley

movie there's not really a bad one

but it's crazy because he was gonna be

in shrek too yeah well shrek one

i should say uh well uh

speaking of uh chris farley i wanted to

bring up the

cinematographer victor kemper okay uh

just because he's got a lot of really

interesting

uh credits including knight of the

juggler which we had earlier oh okay

um but uh mr mom tommy boy

cloak and dagger nice uh look at my

cloak and dagger reference in there

jingle all the way uh but he did like

beethoven

i saw another one on here that i really

liked pewdiepie's big adventure there

you go

oh okay uh cemetery for that so um there

was just a lot of interesting credits

that has only tim burton won um

[Music]

i also did vacation uh yeah it's the

only temporary one i see on there it's

funny i feel like the cinematography for

a big adventure is a lot like the way

they lit the tv show

for all the little sketches and stuff

that they did um

but yeah i think that's everything for

this one if you guys have any thoughts

you'd like to share we are vintage

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and letterboxed

where as i said before you can find each

of our full movie rankings for the year

we can also be found at

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vintage video podcast because this is

our first episode of the month again

i wanted to remind our listeners about

our patreon campaign for anyone who

hasn't had time to check it out

we have a couple tiers to choose from

vintage video will always be free to

listen to

but if it's worth it to you a donation

as small as a buck a month is greatly

appreciated

we are into august now we've been doing

the show for seven months this is our

91st episode

and we're averaging 13 titles a month

and expect to cover about 14 a month

on average over the course of the year

which means that

for the buck a month tier you're

donating seven or eight cents an episode

we also have a five dollar tier about 36

cents per film

which includes a shout out on the show

and a monthly exclusive episode

reviewing a title from the 70s

and a hand in choosing each month's film

we've recorded seven so far and for

september our second tier members are

choosing between five titles

five easy pieces bob rafelson's american

drama starring jack nicholson and karen

black

torah torah torah an epic war film

dramatizing the attack on pearl harbor

cliffs from which were actually used in

the final countdown

hornet's nest an italian-american

precursor to red dawn

with nazis for russians starring rock

hudson

gas aka

gas or it became necessary to destroy

the world in order to

save it a post-apocalyptic black comedy

directed by roger corman

featuring appearances by ben vereen bud

court and talia shire

and rpm stanley kramer's drama about

student activists

occupying a campus building and issuing

a list of demands to the faculty

each of which will be celebrating their

50th anniversaries this september

if this sounds like something you'd be

interested in you can find our campaign

at patreon.com

vintage video podcast if not i hope

you'll at least do the honor of

continuing to listen

thanks again and i hope you'll join us

next time when we'll be discussing the

hunter

final film of actor steve mcqueen which

imdb describes like so

the story of professional bounty hunter

ralph papa thorsen

we leave you now with the trailer for

the hunter

[Music]

steve mcqueen is level-headed

[Music]

[Applause]

he's eagle-eyed

two-fisted

a tower of strength

[Music]

he's not as fast as he used to be

[Music]

that's what makes him human but he

is the hunter

[Music]

and that's what makes him dangerous

mr thorson is a bounty hunter

sheriff wants to see you now

i look sheriff i've come over 1500 bucks

goodbye mr thorsen

steve mcqueen is the hunter

the true story of ralph thorson

a man who's just as soft-hearted

as he is hard-headed

but he's not a cop he's america's last

bounty hunter

where did he come from

the courts have given him the right to

go anywhere

they may pursue principle into another

state

and use any means if necessary may break

it into his

home to bring criminals back to justice

yeah i'm gonna kill you

but now someone he went after is coming

after him

remember how to shoot this right yeah

okay it's got a full clip

[Music]

bang bang bang bang okay

assault attempted murder armed robbery

a very bad boy no he's a good boy he's a

little mixed up

maybe and he's a shooter too he really

wants a commander

see how happy he'll be to see you you'll

talk you'll make friends

[Applause]

there's not a criminal he goes after

that he doesn't bring back

one way

[Music]

or another unless they can get to him

first

steve mcqueen is the hunter